VUBlack

Originally Posted by Dj hard

…my Total Testosterone was 484, so doc said it was very high for a man of my age… 73…

and I was going trough hell of my own, thinking what the hell is wrong, me being 29 now and testosterone lower than one of yours at 73, man, I am literally jealous hold strong

Talking about poor doc’s – same terrible practice can be found in Ireland.

My labs shown FREE TESTOSTERONE – 11.80 nmol/L ( Range 8.80 – 35.00 ) Did conversion from nebido website: 340 ng/dl
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE – 13.93 nmol/L ( Range 9.9 – 27.8 ) Did conversion from nebido website: 402 ng/dl

And supposedly I’m absolutely fine by the doctor, "here, just take these SSRI’s and let me know month later, there’s the door… >>>"

Hold strong Baldur

Also if you chose to keep you bf level constant – you can go on lean bulk watdark_sideng your maBambs closely but dont expect anything dramatic, its a long game.

Im sure more experienced folks will advice better so keep an eye for more replies

Originally Posted by Slacker78

It would be good to have a blood work in the exact moment you felt bad with ache on joints to see if it was E2 related; Although joints ache is a typical low E2 symptom, AIs could cause that in itself, without E2 out of the normal range level.

I suspect it was low e2 as my legs routine was about 5 days apart before I start feeling aches and lethargic, and I hadn’t killed legs hard prior that… also I supplement heavily with omegas, msm and other stuff that would rule out deficiency caused issues. I know regards bloods importance, but this zoo where I live does not facilitate such services to people favour, and even I got lucky to get it done,it took 2 weeks to get results back, which were not the exact tests done that I have requested.

Im in DIY mode as of lately with E2 dialling in. Also as a further precaution lately I began taking aromasin @6.25mg/wk which I think I should split to even smaller pieces and try taking it EOD etc.

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I run deca only cycles, best mass builder that works for me. Why I run it only is for another thread but it takes me to monsterously different places than Test or other AAS.

you sure seem unique case of human male specimen I recall you said before you used to run oral only cycles and it worked amazing for you too, rendering alot whats being said to use test as a base for oral cycles almost as a "myth" (if I recall that right)

Originally Posted by Slacker78

I suppose your problem wasn’t an E2 crush but an E2 out of range issue, to the upper limit maybe. As you were injecting Test E, your Test level grew up inside your blood stream, consequently causing more E2 conversion ( with HCG too ). You stopped AI but you even stopped HCG and you found E2 was above the upper limit. I think it was related to the fact your AI dosages and frequency was not enough to control E2 conversion as your Test E level, increased in your blood stream.

I had sub bellow normal-low E2 levels prior trt naturally, yes HCG and Test did build up my E2 rapidly, but so did AI crashed it to some level for me to begin experience joints discomfort, seemed like flu aches but only on joints. I stopped AI, but continued HCG for the reason being so I build up E2 little quicker to alleviate "low E2" symptoms. I know I may be well off and wrong about what happened, but thats the best of my experience how I can explain it. My e2 seemed to bounce back rather quick (thanks to HCG, joimt pain gone in a matter of days on discontinuation of AI) but I was still taking nolvadex which is synthetic estrogen in non-active form that blocks receptors at chest area, thus although I felt completely normal I believe excess in nolvadex in my blood may have manipulated E2 reading artificially.

Its a speculation of course but that does make sense to me too.

Although you may not be too far of the truth either as my prolactin was little high – may be a result of higher than normal natural E2 too.

I was not running any AI from the start of my TRT, and ~5weeks in I got water retention around nipples and nipple sensitivity, especially when doing cardio and sweating alot.
I looked up and found few quick prevention methods to one of which I have followed and got immediate results within 5-7 days only. Took 6.25mg aromasin monday morning 00:30 and thursday morning 06:30 , along that for the first week I was taking Nolva 20mg/ED for 1st week, and then 10mg/ED after for almost 2 weeks. On second week taking AI I felt that my joints began to hurt out of nowhere, dull pain every damn joint, wasnt too terrible but could not ignore, so stopped aromasin after #4’th 6.25mg dose. continued with nolva 10mg/ED as I said, also continued with HCG and 150mg/wk test-e. Discontinued HCG and nolva ~1week prior blood draw, bloods came in well just E2 was few points above normal-high limit. It may or may not be real measure as nolva and HCG may have it manipulated artificially, but I could tell about few days to a week in w/o AI I began feeling the relief on my joints, so it gotta be something to do with E2.

Its some task to dial in E2 but not impossible

since bloods came in little higher than normal Total-T and Free-T, I dropped test-e to 125mg/wk split half to two pins E3.5D, and no HCG already for ~3+ weeks. Recently I began taking AI again only at less frequent dosage, so currently @6.25mg once a week, because I miss my morning woods again, should be due too too high E2. few days since taking AI, morning wood is back. Not rocket hard nor weak, but noticeable, so AI still is needed.

Thinking splitting this quarter of a grain in to half again and have it take E3.5D too… just wondering.