Arimidex, Aromasin and Proviron

This topic has 64 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 5 months ago by DelusiO.

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- October 30, 2020 at 7:29 am
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Dj hard
Member

I just updated my journey through TRT. A quick recap, I’m now 74 years old, 105 kgs and 1.95m tall. I’ve been on self-inflicted TRT seeing that no-one wanted to treat me, since October/November 2013.

I’m on 200mg weekly of a mix of Test Cyp and Test Enan, I pin 100 mg every Sun and 100 mg every Wed.

I was advised to take an AI – Arimidex . Since I started to take it my libido has been going up and down like a bloody yoyo. I tried every day, once weekly, EOD fortnightly, but there seems to be no correlation between what I take and libido.

For the last 6 weeks my libido has hit rock bottom and started digging! I got new bloodwork last week. My estradiol is close to zero, my SHBG is just a tiny bit over the high limit and my LH is way down as well.

From talking to others, it seems that my body doesn’t do much aromatization with the doses I’m taking, so I have been advised : –

1. Not to take any AI
2. To take (an unspecified dose) Aromasin
3. To take Proviron (unspecified dose).

I can bench 145 kgs. I still have more fat on my lower belly than I would like. I eat a high protein (2gm/kg bodyweight) and no cigs, booze or junk food. I go to the gy 4x weekly and I train with my wife and another guy of 47 and we push each other to the limit.

I have TWO questions :-

1. Which of the three options that I mention above seem appropriate. I personally tend to the Proviron but have no idea how much to take. Some suggestions would be nice.

2. I want to go on a short blast, I’m thinking along the lines of Deca for 10 to 12 weeks. Not crazy doses. Just around 150 to 200 mg weekly split over two doses. I just want the weather to cool off a bit. If I do this, should I take more Proviron or shoul I take Aromasin or should I take both. I really DON’T want to go back to Arimidex.

Obviously, I don’t plan to do Deca until I get my libido stabilized and probably more bloodwork.

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- November 10, 2020 at 2:08 am
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renepjd
Member

Ridiculous statement from a doctor.
How’s your Hematocrit level Baldur?
Still no doubt you can titrate back a little, especially with the numbers posted. Don’t get caught up in the mindset that more is better or you just have to have a certain amount to feel good. It’s usually not the case.
- November 10, 2020 at 3:21 am
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by renepjd

Ridiculous statement from a doctor.
How’s your Hematocrit level Baldur?
Still no doubt you can titrate back a little, especially with the numbers posted. Don’t get caught up in the mindset that more is better or you just have to have a certain amount to feel good. It’s usually not the case.

I wrote of doctors many years ago. I went with my wife to a doctors surgery, she had to pick up something, not sure what. We sat waiting for over an hour to see the guy. There were dark_sidelCrash007 running around screaming. Not long after I collapsed, got taken home in a taxi. Doctor refused to make a house call because I hadn’t seen a doctor for 12 years, so therefore I couldn’t be sick. My wife MTIIE him come out and he diagnosed a cold and stress and told her to give me some aspirin. She got another doctor and I had Chicken Pox. Caught it from one of the screaming kids in his surgery!

The only reason I tool Arimidex was because almost everyone on every forum told me that I should definitely take it, so I did. It wasn’t a SERIOUS problem for the past 8 or 9 months. Libido was up and down, but I thought that this was normal. My blood test in Feb showed estradiol only slightly low, and SHRonin still up.

My latest Haematocrit is 5.13 (Max 5.63). In Feb it was 46.6.
- November 10, 2020 at 4:35 am
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renepjd
Member

Ok. Main thing is to pull BW routinely to stay healthy. Things change as we age and what works now may not a year from now.
- November 10, 2020 at 5:49 am
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by renepjd

Ok. Main thing is to pull BW routinely to stay healthy. Things change as we age and what works now may not a year from now.

Plan is to get another blood in 3 months maybe even sooner, depends on libido. Game plan is blood every 6 months.

HRT as in Hormone Replacement Therapy?
Vet as in Veterinarian or Vet as in Veteran?
From your posting times you aren’t in the USA or am I wrong?

My daughter has a really strange blood result. Doctors where I live are idiots. Maybe you could help. No-one else seems interested – no it isn’t steroids !
- November 10, 2020 at 6:59 am
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VUBlack
Member

Originally Posted by Dj hard

…my Total Testosterone was 484, so doc said it was very high for a man of my age… 73…

and I was going trough hell of my own, thinking what the hell is wrong, me being 29 now and testosterone lower than one of yours at 73, man, I am literally jealous hold strong

Talking about poor doc’s – same terrible practice can be found in Ireland.

My labs shown FREE TESTOSTERONE – 11.80 nmol/L ( Range 8.80 – 35.00 ) Did conversion from nebido website: 340 ng/dl
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE – 13.93 nmol/L ( Range 9.9 – 27.8 ) Did conversion from nebido website: 402 ng/dl

And supposedly I’m absolutely fine by the doctor, "here, just take these SSRI’s and let me know month later, there’s the door… >>>"

Hold strong Baldur
- November 10, 2020 at 8:23 am
- Quote
Mr.BB
Member

You can try using 50mg ed of proviron to reduce the shbg
- November 10, 2020 at 9:48 am
- Quote
renepjd
Member

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

You can try using 50mg ed of proviron to reduce the shbg

True, but it’s temporary. Same for Danazol.
- November 10, 2020 at 10:58 am
- Quote
Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by renepjd

Ok. Main thing is to pull BW routinely to stay healthy. Things change as we age and what works now may not a year from now.

The last time Arimidex passed my lips was on 30 July. I’ve been pinning 500 IU HCG EOD and keeping my T the same (changing only one thing at a time). My lifts are still going up. I feel good, but my libido is still down there at the bottom of the well! I got hold of some Proviron from a colleague, but I haven’t taken any yet. I was thinking along the lines that if my E2 is KNACKERED and I start taking Proviron which is a mild AI, it’s only going to keep my E2 down there.

Any idea when I should start getting some libido back?
- November 10, 2020 at 12:14 pm
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Dj hard
Member

Update : It’s now September. I haven’t taken any kind of AI since 30 July, not even Proviron . I kept my T levels as they were as per advised.

During this time, I still haven’t had any real libido. I’m finding the weights seem to be getting heavier. I still have aches in joints, so obviously this isn’t working.

I’m thinking of doubling my dose of Testosterone in the hope that I’ll get some aromatization. I had a chat on Skype with a retired doctor friend ( who was also into Judo and weights when he was younger). He says that I’m probably one of the very few people who don’t get very much aromatization at all and if this is true then I would need to take a LOT of testosterone for a short while or get estradiol tablets (joke for where I live in Europe!).

Not sur what to bump it up to. I thought maybe up it to 400 mg weekly or even more just for a short time. Then hope the e2 goes up.

Anyone got a better suggestion?
- November 10, 2020 at 1:45 pm
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Dj hard
Member

On the advice of a good brother, I took a break and did 3 weeks of PCT.

I pinned 1,000 IU HCG 3 x weekly.
Week 1 1 x Clomid 3x daily,
Week 2 1 x Clomid twice daily
Week 3 1 x Clomid daily

Then for the next 6 weeks, I dropped my Testosterone to 125 mg per week (every Sunday). I took 500 IU HCG 2 x weekly and I’ve been taking my 1 IU daily of HGH all the time, but I only do 6 days per week and miss on Sunday’s.

I took my 125 mg on Sunday and I had blood drawn on Thu last week and got the results back this morning. They are awful. No wonder I’ve been feeling like shit.

Estradiol 117 ng/dl. Limits 27 – 52
Prolactin 15.8 ug/dl Limits 4 – 15.2
Total T >52 nmol/L
Free T 0.717 nmol/L
FSH <0.1 Limits 1.5 – 17.4
LH <0.1 Limits 1.7 – 8.6
SHRonin 84.3 nmol/L
DHEA-S 82.6 ug/dl. Limits 33.6 – 249.0
Vitamin D 67.8 ng/dl Limits 30 – 100

Symptoms : –

Sleeping badly,
Aches and pains
Just about zero libido,
Soft useless erections
Almost impossible to ejaculate
Putting on weight (not muscle)
Weights max stagnant,
Tired all the time.

My last blood, showed <0.1 estradiol and I wanted to see what would happen if I dropped my T and took no AI.

I was taking 200 mg T weekly before I started the PCT, but I also started taking Deca but only 50 mg weekly for the aches and pains. The bloody Doctor(?) never put prolactin on his blood test before, I had to demand it, because after he had filled out the form, I grabbed it and took a look and saw that he had not ticked Prolactin, in spite of the fact I asked for it every time. This time I made him do it.

First, I need to lower my prolactin and estradiol. The estradiol is easy, I have some Arimidex left over. I don’t want to start taking this again on a regular basis, but I have it, so it makes sense to use it to get my estradiol down. How much should I take until I can get my Aromasin delivered.

I can get Dostinex but it’s bloody expensive on a pension. I’m not planning to take Deca again for quite some time, so all I need it for is to reduce my prolactin. How long would I need to take it for and how much, how often?

Once I get back to normal, I’m just going to stay on Testosterone for at least six months. I read the Vitamin E, Vitamin B6 and zinc can also lower prolactin, but I happen to enjoy sex, so the sooner I can get back to normal the better.

I hope that someone has some suggestions. Remember I am 74 years old. Best 1RM Bench is 145 kgs (320lbs)
- November 10, 2020 at 2:38 pm
- Quote
VUBlack
Member

go buy some VITEX, higher dosages in men tends to increase LH secretion and lowers prolactin, resulting in higher free test ranges, worth a try and doesnt cost much, Ive been experimenting on it myself 4 tabs before night or otherwise 2 at night 2 in the morning (12h split) and my libido gone up significantly, more facial and chest hair growth, less moody, just good things to mention, and Ive been trying it few months ago, then month or almost two off, and now started again about half month in and I can tell you there is a difference. Bought mine on ebay and its natural stuff too. Also, are you supplementing with Vitamin A and Iron? Raw frozen liver is super dense in Vit A so I just take ~20g ED or EOD and ~15mg of iron from your diet or you can supplement with likes of 21st century brand
- November 10, 2020 at 3:31 pm
- Quote
Dj hard
Member

You

Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

go buy some VITEX, higher dosages in men tends to increase LH secretion and lowers prolactin, resulting in higher free test ranges, worth a try and doesnt cost much, Ive been experimenting on it myself 4 tabs before night or otherwise 2 at night 2 in the morning (12h split) and my libido gone up significantly, more facial and chest hair growth, less moody, just good things to mention, and Ive been trying it few months ago, then month or almost two off, and now started again about half month in and I can tell you there is a difference. Bought mine on ebay and its natural stuff too. Also, are you supplementing with Vitamin A and Iron? Raw frozen liver is super dense in Vit A so I just take ~20g ED or EOD and ~15mg of iron from your diet or you can supplement with likes of 21st century brand

Is this it? Vitex Agnus Castus: Vitamins & Supplements | eBay
- November 10, 2020 at 4:36 pm
- Quote
VUBlack
Member

I have bought these exactly there as part of my late vit’s and minerals stack:

IRON: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291619324320

there’s lots more but these are one of most contibuting to me I feel

these are nothing else but exactly what I’ve been getting.

So yea, if this exact type of VITEX, I would suggest to take it like a straight shot of 4 pills with some water about hour before bed on empty stomach and watch how you feel, I guess within a week or two you should start feeling better from this alone. I did alot of reading regards VITEX and I pulled so many various feedbacks of which most pages stated that in women it lowers T raises E so in other words works as an equalizer, and in men in higher dosages it works in an opposite direction such as lowering E and raising T, which I could say at least feels like it. I didnt notice much if any difference in sleep quality but like I said, libido did go up pretty OK and was less moody and hair growth has improved, all this better vitality I could say may be due to this, and if its placebo, Im also happy as I feel better while taking it vs. than when I’m not.

One pack of vitex lasts 25days if taken 4 a day, which I calculated out to be the about optimal dose for men. If you take lower dose you may not get benefits at all. I am open to corrections or suggestions if you feel I am dosing it too low or maybe you found some other info regarding this thing, but so far I liked it.

PS, at first I took 2 tablets for about 2 weeks daily, felt nothing, or if I did it was minor, then took 3tablets for a week already with better feel of well being, and then upped to 4 a day which I found optimal. All I can say worth trying, works for me If you dont expect it to work or you dont feel anything in first few weeks , just try stick to the regimen of lets say 4 tablets a day and get yourself few packs of these so you can try it for few months and see what happens

I wish you best luck with it man!
- November 10, 2020 at 5:45 pm
- Quote
Mr.BB
Member

Originally Posted by Dj hard

On the advice of a good brother, I took a break and did 3 weeks of PCT.

I pinned 1,000 IU HCG 3 x weekly.
Week 1 1 x Clomid 3x daily,
Week 2 1 x Clomid twice daily
Week 3 1 x Clomid daily

Then for the next 6 weeks, I dropped my Testosterone to 125 mg per week (every Sunday). I took 500 IU HCG 2 x weekly and I’ve been taking my 1 IU daily of HGH all the time, but I only do 6 days per week and miss on Sunday’s.

I took my 125 mg on Sunday and I had blood drawn on Thu last week and got the results back this morning. They are awful. No wonder I’ve been feeling like shit.

I stopped reading here…

So you did a PCT while on TRT???

What you did was completely useless, stop taking advice from ppl that dont understand hormones.
- November 13, 2020 at 1:20 am
- Quote
Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

I stopped reading here…

So you did a PCT while on TRT???

What you did was completely useless, stop taking advice from ppl that dont understand hormones.

No, I lost my libido, my erections, I was adark_sideng all over. My previous blood test showed that my estradiol was <0.1.

I stopped the testosterone completely for the three weeks I did the PCT, hoping that I could get my e2 back up and find out if I actually NEEDED to take an AI

I dropped my T from 200 to 125 weekly to see if such a small dose of testosterone as 125mg/week would need me to take an AI at all, because if you backtrack through threads, you will see that several have commented that maybe I don’t need to take any AI at all.

In the absence of a doctor with more than two grey cells to rub together, I have to look for advice from people who have been there and done it.

OK, maybe it wasn’t the right thing to do, but if I listened to my doctor(?) or endocrinologist(?), I would just lie down and die like a good elderly citizen should in these times of austerity and mass immigration.