Xself

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  • Xself
    Member
    @musclescience; You’re not just saying 1g deca would be equal to 1 g test,
    You say 400mg deca gives just as good gains 500 T, 500 D.
    We need a new thread!

    Xself
    Member
    And about AIs;
    I feel they restrict growth a little, might just be because they reduce bloat and increase risk of joint pain.
    (I’ve removed the mammary glands so I can’t get gyno even if I ate pure estrogen, so I only use AIs for aesthetic purposes and for reducing blood pressure)

    So I would opt for not using an AI to control bloat (unless it’s very severe) on a bulking cycle and rather use it for gyno prevention. But you MUST keep it on hand, or at least a SERM like nolvadex that can stop gyno formation if it occurs.
    However that’s just my view, I can see benefits of keeping estrogen low (but not too low) on a bulking cycle as well. For one, whether bulking or cutting, I believe lower estrogen will increase fat burning somewhat.

    And once again listen to the others that try to keep you from making a mistake, blood work, etc is important.
    If you fuck yourself up with improper PCT or just because you react in such an such a way, you’re really not prepared for that at the moment.

    Xself
    Member
    If you have had low levels of T for some time, the TRT you’ve started (provided the doc knows what he’s doing), will make it easier to lose the weight if you follow a good diet and training program.
    As people have said, diet and training are key here.

    But I understand that if you’ve been going with low T levels for a while,
    it’s easier to store calories as fat.
    A diet that would normally ensure enough calories to maintain and increase muscle mass, could in theory be enough to gain fat with low T, since you’re more probable to be in a catabolic state where you can’t gain muscle tissue.
    Thus the extra energy you eat to ensure muscle growth is stored as fat.
    All this will be corrected with your TRT.

    Adding more compounds or increasing the dose isn’t the answer if it’s not working. (Ofcourse do a blood test to see if your T levels are now in the upper normal limit, if not ask to increase the TRT)
    But as long as the TRT works, adding more AAS is for gaining mass, not losing fat.

    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by don trawoltaView
    I have COPD and got tren cough. It sucked but I didn’t think I would die.
    I also have asthma. I keep my rescue inhaler close at hand when I pin,
    If you get tren cough with asthma, it’s going to suck but maybe won’t be as scary for someone who knows how asthma feels.
    Keep that inhaler handy, though. I can’t swear it really helped but it made me feel better.

    Very interesting to know.

    I’ve never got tren cough, either from tren e or tren ace or tren hex.
    And I know I’ve probably nicked a vein too, as I got the taste in my mouth.
    (Might be I remember wrong and this hasn’t happened with tren,
    but it’s happened quite a few times with other compounds)
    Never got the cough, or any trouble breathing at all.

    I find the whole thing very interesting.

    But I’ve usuallly kept my tren dose at no more than 300mg a week.
    That’s quite a lot of tren if u think about it.

    Xself
    Member
    I agree with BackInB. that you should wait doing AAS.
    1 year isn’t much and once you do your first cycle you’ll probably never set a new Personal record, etc without gear in the future.

    And if your going to anyway;
    You need to keep an AI on hand in any case, whether you need to use it on cycle to reduce estrogen might be more probable if you use pregnyl as well, but it depends on what level of estrogen sides you’re willing to tolerate also.

    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting DogView
    SOME water retention????
    Please.

    He’s gained 16lbs in 4 weeks.
    That’s much more than some water retention.
    That’s a couple gallons at least.

    Hehe. Maybe I sugar coated it somewhat.

    But i figure he’s not gonna change anything by now,
    he needs to see this for himself.

    But Alexsss, try to remember this when you stop the cycle and weigh yourself after 1 week and 1 month, and you’ll see how much you’ve actually gained.

    And as for strength increase, you should also know that AAS activate the CNS (nervous system), and strength can go up on just one day (actually just a few hours) depending on the compound.
    So when it comes to actual strength increase, remember this when you lift weights 1 week and 1 month after cycle.

    I had friends who used DBOL only when they were young and reckless,
    and I know exactly how much they gained during cycle, and how much they kept. And simply increasing the dose won’t help you at this point.
    You will gain a little more, but by now your endogenous T production has stopped and the longer you continue, the closer you will get to the point where you’ll start to notice the signs of low T.
    How sensitive one is to the feeling of low T varies from individual.

    I have myself tried at one point to run DBOL solo (as part of an experiment), and by 6 weeks I felt so bad, aggressive, and generally uneasy that I drooled just thinking about an amp of Testoviron . Now I guess I’m pretty sensitive, but think about it when you start feeling bad.
    Unlike you I was able to get very dry and hard on DBOL though,
    (that’s why I said it’s possible to use it without water retention),
    but when using DBOL now, alongside test, I find it difficult, yet not impossible to keep of the water.

    Anyway, your weight gain says it all.
    You simply can’t gain lean muscle that fast.

    But you’ll discover all this very soon.

    Xself
    Member
    I think you over evaluate what we actually have proved by studies on AAS.
    When they began developing synthetic versions of testosterone and saw they behaved differently than testosterone in various ways, chemist developed 100s of steroids , most of which were never studied in humans.

    AR affinity in itself has also proved to be more difficult to measure when studies revealed that agents with low affinity for the androgen receptor still caused a significant increase in AR mediated gene regulation.

    There’s also a lot more to AAS and AR mediated myogenesis.
    Like systemic IGF1 secretion, local IGF1 turnover and on EPO mediated effects, etc.

    When different AAS were developed they tried them in several different conditions. Yes Deca can be used in burn victims, so can many other AAS. Deca is also used for osteoporosis in women.
    Stuff like TBOL were an exception, as it was actually designed (or taken into use) for athletic improvement. But this was under a regime that had a state sponsored doping plan. Other AAS has also only been used for athletic performance, but this is either because they were AAS that didn’t have any medical use and has advantages when it came to testing.
    THG is perhaps the only steroid that we know was developed with the intention for performance use and beating drug tests.

    Anyways, intresting take you have, but even if you just look at the muscle tissue and says deca is enough, you’re neglecting all the other physiological effects T has in the body.

    We should make a new thread.
    This was intresting.

    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by Neofishrodney76View
    So Xself, would you recommend trying Tbol over Winny?

    I feel that for me, TBOL is a more gentle compound than winny. (That is oral winny, the depot version is another matter, but I’ve never tried injectable TBOL so can’t really compare)
    So if I were to run an oral for 4-6 weeks straight I’d choose TBOL.
    It doesn’t give me the back ache that winny does, or any joint problems.
    I refused to believe for a long time that winny causes joint problems,
    as I really couldn’t see any reason for why it should, when run alongside some test (so that E2 doesn’t drop to zero)
    But during my last course of winny, I did eventually have to rethink this.
    After a while, not very dramatic, but some pain/discomfort did appear.
    And it subsided once I separated the winny. So yeah, I don’t know why, can’t understand why, ("dry joints",reduced collagen synthesis, I don’t buy it – but there’s something about it),so I guess all those anecdotes does mean something.
    And I believe the same about deca , all the anecdotes (yes, anecdotal evidence is the weakest form of evidence, but it’s all we have to go by), so I feel deca does something for joints. Can’t prove it though.

    I feel winny is a little more potent at promoting the "hard /dry look" than TBOL though, so depends on your goals.
    Or, as Marcus said, try yourself, that’s really the only way.
    What’s true for me isn’t necessarily for you.
    Both TBOL and winny are nice compounds though.
    It’s just that my body seems to tolerate TBOL better,
    doesn’t mean that applies to you.

    Xself
    Member
    Actually I’ve often mixed winstrol and oil based and find the object to be smoother that way. F.ex I could use a smaller needle to inject without clogging when I mixed winstrol with some oil based the last time, as particle size were big. Whether that prolongs the action of the winstrol I’m not sure, don’t think so, at least not noticeably.

    But why people mix hcg and test f.ex I don’t know. I’m sure it can be done,
    but why bother? The hcg is such a small nice SubQ inject anyways.
    And I wouldn’t want to risk fucking with its absorption time either.
    But I might be totally off here, but since I don’t know I choose not to.

    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by CapoDiCapiView
    So I have DECA 300 mg and TEST E 250mg how should I dose both:
    TEST E 125mg week?
    DECA 150 mg week?

    Yeah, that would be an easy solution due to the deca being 300mg/ml and 150mg being within the therapeutic range for nandrolone .

    This is a meta study folks, meaning it’s not a new experiment, simply an overview of the ones that allready exist. Such studies are often more valid than a single experiment though, so the findings are quite interesting.
    But are there any surprises really?

    1) run deca with your TRT to boost anabolic effects and lesser impact on prostate and hair scalp.
    2) due do the same reasons as above, run some test with the deca to avoid libido issues.
    3) deca may help collagen synthesis and recovery from (at least) rotator cuff damage. (I know we’ve debated this, and I’m sure this study won’t settle that debate, but I say as I’ve always said; I believe nandrolone helps joints, but can’t prove it)

    4) deca has estrogenic activity, either directly or through other mechanisms.

    It was a nice read though, and I love studies that confirm what you allready believe instead of just leaving you with more questions.

    Xself
    Member
    I never understand why some don’t rotate sites. What’s the point?
    Whatever happened Sil, start rotating, at the very least use both quads and both glutes, that’s 4 sites, and then divide the quads into 2, little above middle and little below middle, and you got 6 sites. That way it would take 2 weeks before you hit the same site, and since one rarely hits the exact same place, this should be plenty. But if you haven’t tried delts and triceps please do, and then you’ll join the everlasting discussion of whether there’s any site specific growth in the process.

    Also, I’ve noticed a lot says to mix hCG with their gear.
    I’m old fashioned that way, hCG SubQ with an insulin syringe is sweet IMO.
    The only water i mix with oil is when doing Winstrol , mainly because the Winstrol with big particle size doesn’t clog small needles as easily when mixed with oil. When I used test suspension that were miBambnized to go through an insulin syringe, I prefer it unmixed, as it hits me faster that way.

    Oh, and when a shot stops/clogs the needle, don’t push, try and pull as BB said, if that don’t work, pull out and replace the needle. If that doesn’t work pull out and replace with a bigger needle.

    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by FobosView
    dbol only cycle, simply because i still live at home and i wouldnt be able to hide all the shit you need to inject test etc.
    ive probably gained some water but i look more lean imo, starting getting really marked veins on my forearms and such

    That’s a dumb reason.
    I started using way to young and I was able to hide syringes, amps, etc.
    (Moved out pretty young too tough)
    But I’m not gonna bash you for doing a DBOL only cycle, as I guess someone else has probably allready done so, AND not to mention you’re gonna notice first hand why it’s not a good idea. So you will learn the hard way.

    Lean?
    Look at your face, dark_siden, etc and you’ll see the water.
    As far as lean, well, u don’t gain fat if diet is ok,
    and the water is mostly intracellular in the muscles,
    so the muscles look fuller.
    Also, it is possible to use DBOL and not gain much water weight,
    but with your weight increase I suspect some water retention.

    Xself
    Member
    If you use r & l buttock + r & l delts that’s 4 sites, and since the glutes are big and unlikely to hit the exact same spot each time I’d say you’d be good yes.

    But with ever increasing more injections you should like into expanding your repertoire of injection sites. An easy one to include as well are thighs/quads.
    They’re easy and big muscles.

    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScienceView
    I run deca only cycles, best mass builder that works for me. Why I run it only is for another thread but it takes me to monsterously different places than Test or other AAS.

    Hmm, sounds intresting and very strange, so I’m intrigued.
    But as for the OPs question, how does it affect your joints?

    Xself
    Member
    The sustanon gets you going quick by its propionate and phenyl prop esters, but some front loading with test e should kick you into gear quite fast as well.
    While the two cycles are quite alike, sustanon is a little more difficult to estimate the amount of test still in your body than just using test e.
    And sustanon contains a longer ester than enanthate as well.

    Still, they are similar enough that price and trust in the products would weigh in more than any pharamcologic differences.

    Arimidex can be just as much needed with test e than with sustanon.
    Both will cause quite high levels of androgens in your body when doing 500mg for 12 weeks, and thus also estrogen formation.
    So keep arimidex on hand in any case, you might not need it if you don’t care about a little bloat, but in case of gyno or increased blood pressure it’s irresponsible not to have it in case.

    Some pregnyl during cycle at 250u 3x a week certainly wont hurt with PCT recovery. But remember than pregnyl/hCG also increase aromatase, increasing the need for an AI like adex.

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