How do steroids at a young age really effect hormones later in life?

Originally Posted by Misery13

I agree. I also don’t understand how the 2 new kids on the block are already considered knowledgeable members already…..

I dont understand the whole knowledgeable member thing so whatever, but the respect thing is messed up. Marcus has obviously spent a lot of time and effort here , I’d say he has earned and deserves appropriate respect.

Will you recover better when you are younger? Theoretically yes, but possibly not since your system 100% developed.

Will you recover 100% when you are older? Yet again, it just depends on how your body reacts. Damn near 6 months after cycle my libido is better than it was before cycle and I am waiting on all of my lab work.

The bottom line is steroids are serious stuff and can effect your system in many ways. There are quite a few side effects which are possible before and after cycling. . . .

So before you jump on, really think about of what can possibly happen and what will you do if it does.

Also, whenever who ever decides to jump on. Try to be as safe as possible, all the way from being sanitary which does not change no matter what age you are. To having a proper PCT on hand along with what ever Ai that may apply to you depending on your cycle.

I don’t think any of us really want to mess ourselves up for life. I think

Originally Posted by BcK

Wow the new guys seem to be worth every dime.
Marcus has been here a long time and has practical knowledge a little respect would be nice.
Opinions aside.

I am pretty adamant about not insulting somebody personally especially in a discussion, I think it proves lack of self-control and knowledge on the topic at hand. I haven’t said anything about Marcus300’s character and I usually just look at what message is posted and not what their title under the name is. Unless it is MD The funny thing is that along with insulting me personally he included a lot of other respectable people in that their opinion is congruent with mine. Also, Swifto’s many posts include studies done on animals, that is how science is done. Matt had a great post as well based on his knowledge are you discrediting him as well? I am sorry I offended anybody but I am merely stating my opinion and ideas.

The most humorous thing is that NOBODY touched on any of my key arguments nor ideas. The only rebuttal was that "you are a kid" or "you read too many studies".

I agree that AAS can hurt youth before they are 25. It is stretdark_sideng it far though to claim that their HPTA needs to mature and most data I can find supports the opposite. So if I were to question something which lacks any logical or scientific information, I get bashed on my age. I have seen this in other threads too where one person’s post go unread and repeating the same thing over and over again is done. Read through my posts and argue the points I make. That is discussion, not pointing the finger and saying "you are too young".

If you are proclaiming a theory which isn’t backed up and you can’t argue for why it is true. I understand that there will be some sort of irritation or whatever. I always invite people to argue any points I make, why? Because if I am wrong and then corrected I have emerged the wiser.

Originally Posted by Sworder

It’s not about who is right or wrong, it’s about the truth and what data supports.

If you are proclaiming a theory which isn’t backed up and you can’t argue for why it is true. I understand that there will be some sort of irritation or whatever. I always invite people to argue any points I make, why? Because if I am wrong and then corrected I have emerged the wiser.

There are very few studies conducted on TrueMaxders using the amounts of steroids we use to cycle. A lot of the times there are always contradicting studies what say the complete opposite anyway. Your a 25yrs old kid with 2 years worth of cycle experience under your belt who follows around Bill Roberts copying and pasting his material. When you have spent the time on forums listening to the younger members and spoke in detail to endo’s regarding this subject you will get a better understanding instead of seardark_sideng for studies on the subject on mice or sheep. Ive also worked with many younger BB’s yrs ago which IMHO there are more who suffer with issue post cycle than ones who don’t, even my endo says its out of control. Even you suffer from ED from hormonal imH10 so someone told me which is very usually for someone your age but lets forget about your limpness and lets agree to disagree.You give your advice and I will give mine and everything will be fine but I am sure one day the hard facts will hit you ( sorry no pun intended) when you age a little and experience more than just a couple of yrs worth of cycling.

Now I am sorry but I am going to leave you alone now because I find you a complete imbecile of the highest order

Previous to my other arguments why maturation doesn’t affect testosterone levels later on in life is because testosterone levels do not follow a linear curve through out life. There will be certain effects which impede your natural testosterone levels. Obesity will suppress natural testosterone levels while development of the HPTA. So lets say that 15 year old Charlie is weighing 300 pounds his testosterone levels will be inhibited by his BMI and suppressed "naturally". I believe data supports the testosterone levels being suppressed by about 30-50% something like that. I could pull a study but clearly the topic at hand isn’t even being discussed. So if obesity can suppress the HPTA to adark_sideeve what "natural" levels should be then and when the inhibition is removed(obesity) then the repressed levels will increase. So my thinking is that if AAS induced suppression is a reality before the age of 25 then testosterone levels should be able to return to normal function as well.

This example is one that in my opinion shows that suppression doesn’t effect hormones later in life.

The other example I had was that underdeveloped genitalia have been "fixed" and although there was problems in early development "normal" testosterone levels can be adark_sideeved later on in life despite this great set back.

The next example is that females have their axis as well which gets suppressed. The HPGA, when taking birth control will get suppressed to prevent pregnancy. I don’t understand if the HPGA can be suppressed at 18 and this is considered "safe" presuming that the doctors are doing it. Worthy of note, birth control for women isn’t 100% safe for the same reasons HPTA suppression isn’t 100% safe; not talking about before 25.. In general.

"How do you know where their testosterone levels might have been?" They usually just compare levels at certain ages and make educated guesses in regards to previous testosterone/LH/FSH levels as well as taking in consideration all other vitals BMI and race as well.

Yes, I agree that we might never know exactly the causation to it. What we can do is eliminate certain hypothesis which the answer seems unlikely to be; and narrow it down from there.

@Marcus300 It’s not about the amount of steroids you are doing; it’s about the disturbance of the HPTA function. If all theories considered then that would mean that the AAS does direct tissue damage or sorts. Since you are shutting down the HPTA you aren’t exhausting it. I have covered this already and nobody responded to it. It won’t matter how many cycles I have done because these facts will always remain. I don’t try to substantiate an argument on experience as I have never claimed to have any at all. I am not disputing that young guys are immortal. I am just saying that the "maturation" until 25 is unsupported and false. You claim to speak in-depth to your endo but can’t iterate a reason besides it being delicate. Which I agree upon, but not in the sense you are talking about. If you actually read through my posts you will see I have valid points and that may be why nobody has even touched on my actual arguments. I have a lot of respect for you as I have read many of your posts and I know you have tons of experience. I seem to have a habit of unconditionally debating anything regardless of their previous posts.

I am saying that HPTA suppression at any age is considered a risk. I wouldn’t personally recommend for anybody to cycle unless they were willing to sacrifice their HPTA, regardless of age. I am not disputing that under age 25 shouldn’t cycle, what I am discussing is the causes people give for not doing it. If this were a discussion then my points would be attacked rather than my persona.

If somebody wishes to actually discuss this topic which I have consistently trying to do I would be happy to further it. The only thing that seems congruent is flaming me for asking a perfectly logical question and perhaps breaking down an argument too harshly.

I am fully aware that it may seem disrespectful or arrogant but I am very passionate about discussing and learning more. The thing I have learned from this thread is that people do not wish to discuss, rather attack me personally which I have not done. That isn’t very typical for me to do as I can stand on one side of the debate and keep my composure and if overwhelming facts or logic is thrown at me I will admit my initial theory was wrong. It’s very simple for me but not everybody is as humble or willing to admit they may be wrong. It is going way past having a discussion at this point. I honestly do not even know how to respond to personal attacks or continue this discussion.

My only intention is to debate and discuss a topic, if you bring something to the table about the discussion why is it unfair that you actually back it up?

Demote or ban me if you wish but I am not the first to bow to incorrect nor unsupported data.

Originally Posted by BcK

I agree. I also don’t understand how the 2 new kids on the block are already considered knowledgeable members already…..

i second that ^^^