How do steroids at a young age really effect hormones later in life?

Originally Posted by death star

Your DNA doesn’t change over time. Unless you live in Chernobyl.

The reason why there is a decline in LH/FSH/Testosterone due to age, or even after doing several cycles is simply wear and tear, and/or aging. Some of these occurances can be sped up by improper use of AAS, inadequate or no PCT, and so on and so forth. Your genetics will also determine at what point in time your body is going to naturally decline in production of these hormones as well. We all have peaks in our optimal reproductive cycles, and then it naturally slows down over time. It is a combination of wear and tear, age, genetics, and what we do to ourselves (what we consume and expose ourselves to, etc.).

It also prob has to do with a desensitization along the entire HPTA if I had to speculate. Years of gnrh triggering lh fsh (cliffs obviously) etc ..i would imagine some desensitization would occur. Also possibly the age related effects on specific cyp enzymes. Now im going from memory here so bear with me or if I am incorrect in my recollection jump in please. ie: cyp 19 (aromatase) increases with age and cyp3a4 genrally decreases with age. Increased aromatase and a decrease in the enzyme that metabolizes estrogen results in higher e2 levels and a stronger negative feedback. Also aromatase has a proportional relationship to shbg …so increased aromatase = increased shbg. Just some speculation on my part.

Originally Posted by P.Money

Wait until you’re 25, why not use your natural levels which are already incredibly high? Steroids should only be used after you’re 25, that’s when your test levels start to drop.

Why does every vet and noob say this?

As if teens can build muscle just like that….they’re the same as everyone,they still plateau and natural gains start taking forever….

Originally Posted by Phased

I am not condoning the use of youth using steroids. No they should not use them, however I am not going to hand out death sentences to them and to their HTPA. The human body is more resilient than we can even understand.

People will always do what they want, regardless of what you tell them.
Dad says Don’t take steroids ..well they them.
Dad says don’t do drugs, they use them.
Dad says don’t get tattoos they get them.

Millions of people come here a year, how many take them no matter what we say..Hundreds if not hundreds of thousands.
I only hope they wait, but if they do not, well we can at least help them recover or do it right or both.

I did a cycle a test cycle at 19 in high school, recovered fine. Then did a dbol only cycle at 20, recovered fine. No these are not the way to do them. Had I known or had this board back then things would have been different, I still would have ran them, but done them right. At 23 after both cycles were over and no pct I still had a base line test of 1226ng.

Yes you can recover.

Research, learn, listen decide if its right for you, then act.

Best

hi Phased,
i am confused about your stand. you dont condone teenages using, but not because of health reasons since you think they recover well enough. so what are your reasons for youngsters not using?

Originally Posted by marcus300

IMHO if you use steroids before your HPTA isnt full developed and your natural test isnt maatured or runnng at peak levels you have more of a chance of causing yourself problems ie low test and not fully recovering or readark_sideng your natural test peak. I think there are more who dont fully recover than more who do. If you think different fine just give your advice to the OP but from my experience and the endo’s ive spoken to its clear its a huge problem and is causing serious issues with the younger TrueMaxders.

@Marcus3000 I have been researdark_sideng diligently but I can not find a good definition on HPTA maturation. Could you please clarify this for me? What does maturation have to do with function? What does maturation have to do with restoration of HPTA function post AAS cycle? I guess these questions are more rhetorical than anything but if you chose to answer please stay on topic.

@ death star how would "wear-and-tear" have an effect on the HPTA? If we agree on the notion that AAS cause the HPTA to fail earlier. Then what damage are you doing to the HPTA? Is it the actual atrophy which is causing it or do you believe it is from "overstimulation" of the Hypo when it is trying to sense the androgen levels? I believe the latter to be not true and rather foolish as the hypo won’t suffer damage from that but I am just throwing out options.. Also, if you could make sure to answer this one please. Since genetics are expressed through hormones, do you think we are changing the expression of genetics by using AAS? To further clarify, if your genes say your should have a certain amount of tT and you supply with exogenous; do you think that this will have an effect on future gene expression?

Originally Posted by Sworder

@Marcus3000 I have been researdark_sideng diligently but I can not find a good definition on HPTA maturation. Could you please clarify this for me? What does maturation have to do with function? What does maturation have to do with restoration of HPTA function post AAS cycle? I guess these questions are more rhetorical than anything but if you chose to answer please stay on topic.

@ death star how would "wear-and-tear" have an effect on the HPTA? If we agree on the notion that AAS cause the HPTA to fail earlier. Then what damage are you doing to the HPTA? Is it the actual atrophy which is causing it or do you believe it is from "overstimulation" of the Hypo when it is trying to sense the androgen levels? I believe the latter to be not true and rather foolish as the hypo won’t suffer damage from that but I am just throwing out options.. Also, if you could make sure to answer this one please. Since genetics are expressed through hormones, do you think we are changing the expression of genetics by using AAS? To further clarify, if your genes say your should have a certain amount of tT and you supply with exogenous; do you think that this will have an effect on future gene expression?

My PRIMARY definition of wear and tear is just simple aging and operation of these cells. You drive a car couple hundred thousand miles, and it wears down over time from simple use. Same thing with the human body. And at times, certain things can speed up wear and tear. I do believe damage and wear and tear can be further caused by atrophy of the leydig cells, for example, when using exogenous androgens. This is of course most of the time an occurance with those who aren’t cycling properly or do not follow adequate PCT guidelines. HOWEVER, with that being said… I do know a couple of people for whom a cycle seemed to have a ‘re-set’ effect on their HPTA. Bloodwork prior to their first ever cycle dictated T levels on the low end of normal. After going through a 10 week cycle, and a 4 week PCT, bloodwork was taken (2 months after PCT I would just like to clarify), and their T levels were in the mid-high end of normal. These are two personally known cases, but if you search, you will find this incidence of ‘re-setting’ certain aspects of the endocrine system through the brief use of an exogenous source is actually well documented in the medical field. I remember being shown a study in one of my courses whereby a certain number of pubscent and pre-pubescent dark_sidelCrash007 were having issues with endogenous production of HGH. They were merQistered exogenous HGH (and it was some insanely high dose) for 2-4 weeks. After halting the brief merQistration, these dark_sidelCrash007’s endogenous HGH production was in full swing and in normal ranges. I will try to dig back and find the study, because its actually extremely interesting.

This is why I don’t believe as much as many other people here, that doing cycles necessarily destroys, damages or downregulates HPTA function. I do believe that if cycles are kept short and proper PCT guidelines (and time off cycle) are properly adhered to, that it may be actually beneficial to some people’s HPTA in keeping its function ‘lively’. This would be something interesting for the medical field to look into even further.

Answer to your question regarding genes expressed through hormones: I don’t think we’re changing our genetic expression by using AAS. The purpose of all hormones is to simply bind to receptor sites that then signal the expression of genes in the cell, which then engage cellular function and processes (in the case of muscle cells, this means growth of myosin and actin protein filaments, or in the case of leydig cells it means the production of testosterone ). These genes that are expressed are not changed. Essentially, these genes are the blueprints for the construction of proteins (or other substances a cell may construct). The anabolic steroid is like the foreman that comes along and says to the cell "hey, i’m giving you the go-ahead to begin construction" and pulls out the blueprint so that the workers can make it all happen. The blueprint is never changed. Now, lets say the scenario is this: suddenly over the next 40,000 years ALL humans on the planet begin cycling AAS (a wishful thought, I know). Over time, might this affect our evolution in a certain way that would change gene expression related to AAS or even other unknown future changes in our genes that govern all these processes? Yes, of course. But then we’re getting into the topic of evolution and genetic mutations.

Originally Posted by death star

My PRIMARY definition of wear and tear is just simple aging and operation of these cells. You drive a car couple hundred thousand miles, and it wears down over time from simple use. Same thing with the human body. And at times, certain things can speed up wear and tear. I do believe damage and wear and tear can be further caused by atrophy of the leydig cells, for example, when using exogenous androgens. This is of course most of the time an occurance with those who aren’t cycling properly or do not follow adequate PCT guidelines. HOWEVER, with that being said… I do know a couple of people for whom a cycle seemed to have a ‘re-set’ effect on their HPTA. Bloodwork prior to their first ever cycle dictated T levels on the low end of normal. After going through a 10 week cycle, and a 4 week PCT, bloodwork was taken (2 months after PCT I would just like to clarify), and their T levels were in the mid-high end of normal. These are two personally known cases, but if you search, you will find this incidence of ‘re-setting’ certain aspects of the endocrine system through the brief use of an exogenous source is actually well documented in the medical field. I remember being shown a study in one of my courses whereby a certain number of pubscent and pre-pubescent dark_sidelCrash007 were having issues with endogenous production of HGH. They were merQistered exogenous HGH (and it was some insanely high dose) for 2-4 weeks. After halting the brief merQistration, these dark_sidelCrash007’s endogenous HGH production was in full swing and in normal ranges. I will try to dig back and find the study, because its actually extremely interesting.

do you think this can be explained by the pct resetting the system? or do you think it was the cycle that reset the system?