Arimidex, Aromasin and Proviron

This topic has 64 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by DelusiO.

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- October 30, 2020 at 7:29 am
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Dj hard
Member

I just updated my journey through TRT. A quick recap, I’m now 74 years old, 105 kgs and 1.95m tall. I’ve been on self-inflicted TRT seeing that no-one wanted to treat me, since October/November 2013.

I’m on 200mg weekly of a mix of Test Cyp and Test Enan, I pin 100 mg every Sun and 100 mg every Wed.

I was advised to take an AI – Arimidex . Since I started to take it my libido has been going up and down like a bloody yoyo. I tried every day, once weekly, EOD fortnightly, but there seems to be no correlation between what I take and libido.

For the last 6 weeks my libido has hit rock bottom and started digging! I got new bloodwork last week. My estradiol is close to zero, my SHBG is just a tiny bit over the high limit and my LH is way down as well.

From talking to others, it seems that my body doesn’t do much aromatization with the doses I’m taking, so I have been advised : –

1. Not to take any AI
2. To take (an unspecified dose) Aromasin
3. To take Proviron (unspecified dose).

I can bench 145 kgs. I still have more fat on my lower belly than I would like. I eat a high protein (2gm/kg bodyweight) and no cigs, booze or junk food. I go to the gy 4x weekly and I train with my wife and another guy of 47 and we push each other to the limit.

I have TWO questions :-

1. Which of the three options that I mention above seem appropriate. I personally tend to the Proviron but have no idea how much to take. Some suggestions would be nice.

2. I want to go on a short blast, I’m thinking along the lines of Deca for 10 to 12 weeks. Not crazy doses. Just around 150 to 200 mg weekly split over two doses. I just want the weather to cool off a bit. If I do this, should I take more Proviron or shoul I take Aromasin or should I take both. I really DON’T want to go back to Arimidex.

Obviously, I don’t plan to do Deca until I get my libido stabilized and probably more bloodwork.

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- October 30, 2020 at 8:18 am
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The Titan99
Member

Hey Man! In my opinion your dose is too low to warrant an AI. As evidenced by bloodwork your estrogen has crashed resulting in no libido. I would continue on the test, drop the AI and get new estradiol tests done in a month if your not back to normal libido-wise. Also, until you get that sorted I wouldn’t muddy the water with any deca blasting of 200mg/wk!! LOL! Although deca won’t convert to estro, you could possibly have prolactin issues (doubt it at 200 mg/wk) which would affect libido but wouldn’t be estrogen, which could get confusing.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. I’m 99% sure if you stop the AI you will return to happiness. However, it may take a while since it’s a long road back from estro crashing.
- October 30, 2020 at 9:54 am
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by The Titan99

Hey Man! In my opinion your dose is too low to warrant an AI. As evidenced by bloodwork your estrogen has crashed resulting in no libido. I would continue on the test, drop the AI and get new estradiol tests done in a month if your not back to normal libido-wise. Also, until you get that sorted I wouldn’t muddy the water with any deca blasting of 200mg/wk!! LOL! Although deca won’t convert to estro, you could possibly have prolactin issues (doubt it at 200 mg/wk) which would affect libido but wouldn’t be estrogen, which could get confusing.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. I’m 99% sure if you stop the AI you will return to happiness. However, it may take a while since it’s a long road back from estro crashing.

Is there anything that I can do / take to speed it up? How about double the testosterone (or more) for a while?
- October 30, 2020 at 11:19 am
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The Titan99
Member

Crashing your estrogen is kind of like tumbling your house of cards. It will take a while to build back up, but like with a house of cards, do you think it wise to stack the cards twice as fast to make up the lost time? You probably know what happens next? You swing the other way and end up in the same libido boat, but with the added fun of water retention, BP issues most likely, possible gyno issues (more of a threat since I’m not picturing a lean, cut 74 year old at 105 KG (am I right?) And then your back on the "How much AI should I take" ride again…

Nope. Slow and steady wins the race. It won’t be that long before your feeling better (anything more than zero will be an improvement estrogen wise) and then better and better. It’s not like you wait a month and then bang, your better.

BTW, 200 mg is not TRT. It’s not much, but it’s way over TRT I think…
- November 5, 2020 at 5:50 am
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Dreamer
Member

Small Recommendation on neither of your questions.

Adex is a compound that blocks and that is only as consistent as your dosage is per the half-life. Aromasin is a binding compound and per an earlier write up by musitiontin it is hard as hell to bottom out with it due to how it performs its task. If you have the means switch to Aromasin a bit and see if you can get dialed in better with it. As low of a dose of test as you are on the Aromasin should work easy peasy. Adex is like the second step up for Estrodol treatment because it is so much more powerful due to it blocks binding at the receptors (ALL ) Aromasin blocks at the receptors it has bonded with not the ones it is not bonded to.

My 2 cents for the libido.

You do not need to make yourself a second issue and get all out of sorts by unstabilizing your test level. Let it return normally.
- November 5, 2020 at 7:04 am
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by The Titan99

Crashing your estrogen is kind of like tumbling your house of cards. It will take a while to build back up, but like with a house of cards, do you think it wise to stack the cards twice as fast to make up the lost time? You probably know what happens next? You swing the other way and end up in the same libido boat, but with the added fun of water retention, BP issues most likely, possible gyno issues (more of a threat since I’m not picturing a lean, cut 74 year old at 105 KG (am I right?) And then your back on the "How much AI should I take" ride again…

Nope. Slow and steady wins the race. It won’t be that long before your feeling better (anything more than zero will be an improvement estrogen wise) and then better and better. It’s not like you wait a month and then bang, your better.

BTW, 200 mg is not TRT. It’s not much, but it’s way over TRT I think…

You’re right, I’m not as lean as I would like to be. When I was young and doing heavy weight workouts, along with Judo, Aikido, and a hole host of other activities, I was LEAN and I weighed 110 kgs. I was one hell of a lot bigger than I am today. According to the fat calipers, I’m somewhere around 18% body fat. I wasn’t able to do any form of exercise from around 35 until I retired. I already lost almost 50 kgs of fat. My take was that if I tried to lose any more, I would look skinny. I decided to put on some more muscle before trying to lose any more fat. I got down to 100 kgs, then went on a weight gain up to 106. Then I lost more fat to 100 again and I’m now on 105 kgs. I FEEL good and I look good enough to be still guessed at under 50 and no- one believes my age or that I can bench 145 kgs.

I just want my sex life back! I suppose you are right, so I guess being patient (not my strongest suit) is the way to go.

I tried 100 mg test, for a couple of months. Waste of time. It was only when I went up to 200 that I started to come back to life again. I’ll stick with what I’m on until the libido hots up.

Does anyone know anything about Proviron ? I’m told this hots up the libido as well.
- November 5, 2020 at 8:30 am
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The Titan99
Member

Originally Posted by Dreamer

You’re right, I’m not as lean as I would like to be. When I was young and doing heavy weight workouts, along with Judo, Aikido, and a hole host of other activities, I was LEAN and I weighed 110 kgs. I was one hell of a lot bigger than I am today. According to the fat calipers, I’m somewhere around 18% body fat. I wasn’t able to do any form of exercise from around 35 until I retired. I already lost almost 50 kgs of fat. My take was that if I tried to lose any more, I would look skinny. I decided to put on some more muscle before trying to lose any more fat. I got down to 100 kgs, then went on a weight gain up to 106. Then I lost more fat to 100 again and I’m now on 105 kgs. I FEEL good and I look good enough to be still guessed at under 50 and no- one believes my age or that I can bench 145 kgs.

I just want my sex life back! I suppose you are right, so I guess being patient (not my strongest suit) is the way to go.

I tried 100 mg test, for a couple of months. Waste of time. It was only when I went up to 200 that I started to come back to life again. I’ll stick with what I’m on until the libido hots up.

Does anyone know anything about Proviron? I’m told this hots up the libido as well.

Yeah, I’m 50 on an island full of 25 year olds and they all guess me at 35. Hope I’m the same as you 25 years from now. I take 50 mg of Proviron ed. It keeps the test from binding to the SHRonin and leaves more free test in the blood. Honestly I don’t think it’s a game changer, but I take it and it works for me.
- November 5, 2020 at 10:03 am
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by The Titan99

I knew there was a reason I only use aromasin , just didn’t know the particulars. Crashed repeatedly myself on adex. Got to the point where I never took an AI. Went around looking like the Michelien Man with feet like a pregnant woman. Lunk suggested I try aromasin and have been great ever since.

Yeah, I’m 50 on an island full of 25 year olds and they all guess me at 35. Hope I’m the same as you 25 years from now. I take 50 mg of Proviron ed. It keeps the test from binding to the SHRonin and leaves more free test in the blood. Honestly I don’t think it’s a game changer, but I take it and it works for me.

So do you take the Proviron as well as the Aromasin? How much T do you take weekly and how much of the Aromasin and Proviron?
- November 5, 2020 at 11:16 am
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The Titan99
Member

The Proviron has nothing to do with AI’s. I take 50 mg every day. Like I said before, I wouldn’t take an AI at 200 mg of test, but others may advise differently. I guess it’s different for everyone. For instance, I take 25 mg eod of aromasin right now, but I’m on a ton more test than you. Since your estrogen is zero, in my mind it doesn’t need any controlling at all right now!!
- November 5, 2020 at 12:23 pm
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by The Titan99

The Proviron has nothing to do with AI’s. I take 50 mg every day. Like I said before, I wouldn’t take an AI at 200 mg of test, but others may advise differently. I guess it’s different for everyone. For instance, I take 25 mg eod of aromasin right now, but I’m on a ton more test than you. Since your estrogen is zero, in my mind it doesn’t need any controlling at all right now!!

The reason I ask is that once I get some e2 back, I want to add 200 mg Deca every week for a while. My knees still give me a hard time, not really painful, but uncomfortable and they make noises!
- November 5, 2020 at 1:38 pm
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The Titan99
Member

Deca doesn’t covert to estrogen so no worries there.
- November 5, 2020 at 3:05 pm
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NACH3
Member

Originally Posted by The Titan99

Deca doesn’t covert to estrogen so no worries there.

Nandrolone does convert to estrogen… At 20% the rate of testosterone … Very little but it does convert(not or rarely in adipose tissues)… For those that are more sensitive to aromatization may get some E2 sides(nothing like test)…

Found this on a quick search…
Nandrolone also show an extremely lower tendency for estrogen conversion. For comparison, the rate has been estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterones9
- November 5, 2020 at 4:23 pm
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by NACH3

Nandrolone decanate does convert to estrogen… At 20% the rate of testosterone … Very little but it does convert(not or rarely in adipose tissues)… For those that are more sensitive to aromatization may get some E2 sides(nothing like test)…

Found this on a quick search…
Nandrolone also show an extremely lower tendency for estrogen conversion. For comparison, the rate has been estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterones9

That’s good to know. I always thought that it did aromatization. Thanks for that info. I also have slight BPH and I’ve had it for years. I used to have to get up to pee, 3 or 4 times nightly. I had it treated with acupuncture. It seemed to work, because since than, I sometimes have to get up once, but most nights I sleep right through. I keep a careful watch on my prostate. I wonder if Deca can affect that. I’ve looked on the web, but everyone has a different idea. It’s always nice to have some first hand experience to guide one.
- November 5, 2020 at 5:31 pm
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renepjd
Member

The obvious question. What are your Total and Free T levels at your present dosage?
200 mgs Test per week is high end TRT. Very few need this amount.
Proviron is a DHT and as such, will act as a weak AI. It will not take the place of an AI.
Estradiol is the wrong test for males. You need a sensitive estrogen assay.
LH levels are way down due to exogenous testosterone . When you take it, you shut your internal production down.
SHRonin rises with age. It’s nature. If you’re already taking that much test and it’s still high then it probably will always be. Optimize your Vit D Level.
I don’t suggest adding deca until you settle your E2 issue. Give it a month as Titan suggested and pull more BW (correct E2 test) and evaluate both your Test dosage and E2.
- November 5, 2020 at 6:43 pm
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Tengen
Member

200 mgs/ week is the upper dosage of TRT. An AI is only needed if you are suffering symptoms of high E2. Things like gyno or other related issues.
Did you pull labs pre TRT, during TRT? To check E2 levels before just adding in a compound?
Injecting twice a week subq is the best approach and helps to stabilIze serum levels which helps keep E2 from getting out of control, but everyone is different.
Are you taking HCG with your Test?
Have you been pulling labs to check you RBC? And Hemotocrit levles?
With that high a dose you could have polycythemia, very easily. I take 150/ week and def have it so, that is no joke and why you should be pulling reg labs.
- November 10, 2020 at 1:18 am
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Dj hard
Member

Originally Posted by Tengen

200 mgs/ week is the upper dosage of TRT. An AI is only needed if you are suffering symptoms of high E2. Things like gyno or other related issues.
Did you pull labs pre TRT, during TRT? To check E2 levels before just adding in a compound?
Injecting twice a week subq is the best approach and helps to stabilIze serum levels which helps keep E2 from getting out of control, but everyone is different.
Are you taking HCG with your Test?
Have you been pulling labs to check you RBC? And Hemotocrit levles?
With that high a dose you could have polycythemia, very easily. I take 150/ week and def have it so, that is no joke and why you should be pulling reg labs.

100 mg did nothing for me at all. Before I started, my Total Testosterone was 484, so doc said it was very high for a man of my age. When I told him it didn’t make sense because I hadn’t had an erection for almost 6 years, the asshole laughed and said "why would a man of 73 want an erection?"

I went to 3 different doctors before one agreed to test Free Testosterone and estradiol etc. my Free T was so low they couldn’t measure it. My SHRonin was way up, my estradiol was actually down a bit. The Endo they sent me to refused to treat me because of my age and high Total T!

I searched on this and many other Forums and started 100 mg weekly. No effect at all. It was only when I got up to 200 that I actually started to come alive. I’ve actually tried dropping it, but then I start to feel like shit again in a couple of weeks.

I had blood done again 3 months after I started TRT and HGH. It was OK. Estradiol was up to lab specs, SHRonin still high. For my latest blood work, they don’t actually give you figures over a certain limit, the just tell you >1154, same with Free T >22 ng/dl they use ng/L for the estradiol. It’s <25 LH is <0.1 U/L. prolactin is 8.0 ug/L. SHRonin is 76.9 nmol/L, which is just outside the lab max of 76.7.

My IGF-1 is 363 ug/L. Everything else on the blood was within the lab ranges.

I’m certainly not planning to add anything else to the mix until I get my e2 up and my sexy life turns on again. I actually LIKE to get erections and I actually LIKE sex, in spite of the moronic doctors!

There is zero history of cancer or heart problems in my family

I REFUSE to grow old gracefully. My grandfather missed his 100th birthday by a couple of weeks. He ate some bad fish paste. He was very healthy. I understand his father made 115. I plan to beat ’em both! Not only that, but I plan to bench 200 kgs, long before than!