› Forums › ANABOLIC STEROIDS – QUESTIONS & ANSWERS › Anavar vs. Masteron
- This topic has 69 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by Vash the Stampede.
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- November 13, 2020 at 2:52 am
bumpCan you increase any muscle size from Masteron ?
- November 13, 2020 at 3:45 am
Originally Posted by marcmoranbumpCan you increase any muscle size from Masteron?
Not really a mass builder but it could be used to complement a mass building cycle in combination w/Test. Is doesn’t convert into estrogen but it is highly androgenic . Most DHT compounds aren’t ideal for packing on size. Masteron however binds strongly to the SHRonin, similar to Proviron , which enhances the action of testosterone . Theory has it that when used in combination with test, Masteron will bind mostly to SHRonin, which frees up the test to yield greater anabolic effects = enhanced gains.
- November 13, 2020 at 5:08 am
Originally Posted by BeastAnywhere from 300-500 a week…no more than that and for 4 -6 weeks weeksi always run it 8 wks. usually at 700mg/wk. i must say i think 4 wks is too little time with mast
- November 13, 2020 at 6:10 am
Originally Posted by ALAN_KINGSTONMasteron however binds strongly to the SHRonin, similar to Proviron, which enhances the action of testosterone.only difference is masteron works and proviron is worthless. look up dr. michael scally’s article on proviron. haha
- November 13, 2020 at 7:18 am
Originally Posted by powerliftmikeonly difference is masteron works and proviron is worthless. look up dr. michael scally’s article on proviron. hahaThat would certainly be an interesting read and completely contrary to my own personal experience. I’d love to see what the good Dr. has to say about it.
Proviron is one of the most under-rated steroids out there, imo. It helps prevent estrogen build up given its affinitty for the aromatase enzyme (it downgrades the actual estrogen receptor). It gives me morning wood, muscle hardness and has been clinically proven to not be suppressive to HPTA. It also dries out my skin keeping acne at bay.
Link please.
- November 13, 2020 at 8:38 am
Originally Posted by ALAN_KINGSTONThat would certainly be an interesting read and completely contrary to my own personal experience. I’d love to see what the good Dr. has to say about it.Proviron is one of the most under-rated steroids out there, imo. It helps prevent estrogen build up given its affinitty for the aromatase enzyme (it downgrades the actual estrogen receptor). It gives me morning wood, muscle hardness and has been clinically proven to not be suppressive to HPTA. It also dries out my skin keeping acne at bay.
Link please.
+1. I am also using proviron and find it to be beneficial
- November 13, 2020 at 9:49 am
Originally Posted by Polska+1. I am also using proviron and find it to be beneficialWell, what can you say? I guess I should flush my Proviron down the toilet and demand a refund from the source that provided it based on the good Dr. Michael Scally’s article that I can’t seem to find anywhere on Meso. Hmmm.
"Proviron is worthless" – classic statement.
No doubt Masteron is the stronger compound BUT unlike Proviron Masteron is suppressive to HPTA (not something ideal to run with PCT).
Here’s my experience…when I run Proviron around 75mgs/ed I don’t seem to get the same level of estrogen related sides as I do without it. Furthermore, with Proviron added to my cycle I don’t need to run an AI either, kill off all the estrogen in my body and my libido with it. No, with Proviron I can get away with a low dose of Nolva to block the estrogen from binding to ER and not need to kill my libido with an AI. In fact, my libido is enhanced with Proviron.
Estrogen or lack thereof has a greater effect on killing one’s libido than being shutdown. Estrogen plays a big role in libido. If your estrogen is too low then you will have no libido. When people take letro it kills their libido because it reduces estrogen levels by 99%.
Here’s an article discuussing how estrogen actually boosts libido and energy in men:
- November 13, 2020 at 11:15 am
the article:However, a brief note on proviron . What evidence is there that proviron lacks androgenic activity. The literature presents this by the absence of proviron to influence significantly infertility, erythropoiesis, lipids, and sex hormones. Except for the obsessive compulsive that needs to take a substance, thus replacing an AAS with adverse HPTA effects with one that does not, proviron is a worthless AAS, useful for nothing. Proviron will not support or provide any basis for the return of HPTA function.
The quoted abstract from the study by Varma and Patel really does not give one any information. [Varma TR, Patel RH. The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men. Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1988;26:121-8.] The study is poor from the abstract alone. Please note that the statement, "Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated," refers unidentified group. The groups in the study include, "One hundred ten patients . . . had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients . . . had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone." Nowhere is there a group with elevated levels. Nonetheless, the cited effect is a "depressing effect" not stated as significant. Knowing the fluctuation in gonadotropin levels on testing even at a P<0.05 would not be meaningful. But it does go to the point that proviron has no adverse effect on the HPTA.
Mesterolone is useless for infertility. A year after the Varma study, 1989, the World Health Organization published a study demonstrating, "[n]o significant changes semen quality during the course of the study, apart from an increase in sperm concentration 3 months after the start of treatment. The increase was greatest among the placebo treated group, but did not differ significantly between treatment groups." [Mesterolone and idiopathic male infertility: a double-blind study. World Health Organization Task Force on the Diagnosis and Treatment of Infertility. Int J Androl 1989;12:254-64.]
In 1991, a study concludes, "Because similar semen improvement also occurred in the placebo controls, our findings cast doubt on the possible usefulness of high-dose Mesterolone treatment of idiopathic male infertility." [Gerris J, Comhaire F, Hellemans P, Peeters K, Schoonjans F. Placebo-controlled trial of high-dose Mesterolone treatment of idiopathic male infertility. Fertil Steril 1991;55:603-7.]
These confirm an earlier study from 1983. [Wang C, Chan CW, Wong KK, Yeung KK. Comparison of the effectiveness of placebo, clomiphene citrate, mesterolone, pentoxifylline, and testosterone rebound therapy for the treatment of idiopathic oligospermia. Fertil Steril 1983;40:358-65.] Treatment with the mesterolone (100 mg/day) therapy did not result in a significant increase in the mean sperm concentration or pregnancy in the partners.
Proviron is useless in promoting erythropoiesis (formation of red blood cell elements) and bone formation (a mixed effect of testosterone through the androgen receptor and estradiol receptor), both evidence of androgenic activity. Mesterolone (100 mg/d) is ineffective in raising hemoglobin and hematocrit levels significantly from baseline in individuals with hypogonadism. The study cites that Mesterolone did not increase serum testosterone (but also did not mention that there is a decrease). [Jockenhovel F, Vogel E, Reinhardt W, Reinwein D. Effects of various modes of androgen substitution therapy on erythropoiesis. Eur J Med Res 1997;2:293-8.]
As recent as 2003, mesterolone (100 mg/d) for 6 months merQistered to hypogonadal males failed to significantly raise bone mineral density (BMD). Treatment with testosterone undecanoate (160 mg/d), testosterone enanthate 250 mg (every 21 days), or a single subcutaneous implantation of 1,200 mg crystalline testosterone did result in BMD increases. [Schubert M, Bullmann C, Minnemann T, Reiners C, Krone W, Jockenhovel F. Osteoporosis in male hypogonadism: responses to androgen substitution differ among men with primary and secondary hypogonadism. Horm Res 2003;60:21-8.]
Erythropoiesis and bone formation are positive aspects of androgens useful under certain clinical conditions. AAS consistently have adverse effects on lipid profiles that are generally observed as a decrease in HDL (good cholesterol). In 1999, twenty years after the study cited by MaxRep [Nikkanen V. Plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of normolipemic male patients with decreased fertility treated with mesterolone. Andrologia 1979;11:33-6.] proviron was found to adversely effect the lipid profile in hypogonadal men. The study by abstract analysis is hard to detail but an adverse effect of proviron is reported. Also, the study reports on serum testosterone levels with androgen treatments. Androgen substitution led to no significant increase of serum testosterone in the proviron group, subnormal testosterone in the testosterone undecanoate group, normal testosterone in the testosterone enanthate group, and high-normal testosterone in the crystalline testosterone group. The message is proviron did not affect the HPTA. [Jockenhovel F, Bullmann C, Schubert M, et al. Influence of various modes of androgen substitution on serum lipids and lipoproteins in hypogonadal men. Metabolism 1999;48:590-6.] The same author reports that proviron merQistration has no effect on serum FSH or testosterone. [Nikkanen V. The effects of mesterolone on the male accessory sex organs, on spermiogram, plasma testosterone and FSH. Andrologia 1978;10:299-306.]
I have said too much already. A further review of proviron literature will not change the use of proviron as an AAS for either anabolic or androgenic effects. Bottom line: Proviron is of no use for anything.
- November 13, 2020 at 12:30 pm
Originally Posted by powerliftmikethe article:I agree with you bro, some my get something but most do not and would never run it…IMO
- November 13, 2020 at 1:41 pm
Proviron not suppressive to HPTA is weird myth hard to explain. Im sure you can find a study that supports the claim that the authors couldnt find a reduction in FSH, LH, and GNRH but then again you can get a study for anything. does it honestly make sense to you that it wouldnt be suppressive? Its basically DHT, and DHT, although mildly, does have an inhibitory effect.I have used proviron several times. I think alot of benefit people get from it is psychological especially during PCT. i found it to be somewhat effective in reducing bloat, but cannot really control estrogens as people claim. can it help wood a bit? yes, remember its basically DHT.
but all the stuff on sperm quality improvements, some miracle estrogen controller, anabolic benefit, no effect on HPTA is crap. and this SHRonin binding stuff is way overrated as well.
- November 13, 2020 at 2:54 pm
Originally Posted by powerliftmikeProviron not suppressive to HPTA is weird myth hard to explain. Im sure you can find a study that supports the claim that the authors couldnt find a reduction in FSH, LH, and GNRH but then again you can get a study for anything. does it honestly make sense to you that it wouldnt be suppressive? Its basically DHT, and DHT, although mildly, does have an inhibitory effect.I have used proviron several times. I think alot of benefit people get from it is psychological especially during PCT. i found it to be somewhat effective in reducing bloat, but cannot really control estrogens as people claim. can it help wood a bit? yes, remember its basically DHT.
but all the stuff on sperm quality improvements, some miracle estrogen controller, anabolic benefit, no effect on HPTA is crap. and this SHRonin binding stuff is way overrated as well.
Much better post than the previous one (btw, the ‘article’ was actually a post by the good Doctor Scally at Meso, not something actually ‘published’). What exactly is he saying in his ‘post’??? Basically that Proviron is useless for infertility so how does that reinforce your point about Provion being ‘useless’? Useless for what? As an infertility drug??? Is that why BBers use it???????
See link:
And yes, I can point to studies that conclusively show proviron is not suppressive to HPTA even at high dosages (150mgs/ed). You’ll find extracts of those very studies with references in most Proviron steroid profiles anyway.
I do however agree that it has little to no use as a ‘fertility drug’ but it that what we’re talking about here? No, it isn’t. Proviron is an androgen that doesn’t convert to estrogen and actually reduces circulating estrogen (somewhat) in body. Clomid, HCG and HMG are much better drugs to increase sperm count and mobility during PCT but is that why most users take Proviron? Again, no it isn’t.
The binding affinity to the SHRonin is not over-rated imo, which does in fact enhance the anabolic effect of testosterone (also clinically proven). I use Proviron during PCT as a libido enhancer (morning wood), not to kickstart the HPTA. There are other more effective drugs for that, some of which I already mentioned, not least of which is Nolva, which, in my view, is much better than Clomid for restoring HPTA function without the sides common to Clomid (acne and the like).
- November 13, 2020 at 3:51 pm
Originally Posted by ALAN_KINGSTONAnd yes, I can point to studies that conclusively show proviron is not suppressive to HPTA even at high dosages (150mgs/ed). You’ll find extracts of those very studies with references in most Proviron steroid profiles anyway.There are also studies showing halo to not be suppressive. The problem is non-aromatizing androgens like this have a small effect and can usually only be seen longer term. IMO its foolish to think that proviron can "one-up" the body and trick it. same goes for the 10mg dbol bridging theory and low dose halo.
if you believe proviron helps you by all means use it. but any small effect proviron can have there are better means. estrogen blocking/control: SERMs/AIs. Any hardening/cutting clen and "real" AAS. wood: cialis/viagra/levitra. and yes i know what you might be saying..but cialis etc. just cover up the problem…well proviron does the same thing.
- November 13, 2020 at 4:46 pm
Originally Posted by powerliftmikeThere are also studies showing halo to not be suppressive. The problem is non-aromatizing androgens like this have a small effect and can usually only be seen longer term. IMO its foolish to think that proviron can "one-up" the body and trick it. same goes for the 10mg dbol bridging theory and low dose halo.if you believe proviron helps you by all means use it. but any small effect proviron can have there are better means. estrogen blocking/control: SERMs/AIs. Any hardening/cutting clen and "real" AAS. wood: cialis/viagra/levitra. and yes i know what you might be saying..but cialis etc. just cover up the problem…well proviron does the same thing.
Again, we’re talking in circles. You keep wanting to go back to Proviron being an aide in PCT recovery. That is not why I take it. I take on-cycle and during PCT for different reasons. I take on-cycle so I can minimize the use of an AI and maximize the effect of Testosterone . Would I get the same result from Nolva or A-dex on-cycle? No, I would get the opposite effect since both SERMs/AIs inhibit gains whereas Proviron is additive to them. Also, since it has no suppressive effect on HPTA I run it during PCT to help with libido function AND to preserve the gains made on-cycle. I don’t believe in the dbol bridge theory either. A bridge is nothing more than a continuation of a cycle.
- November 13, 2020 at 5:53 pm
Hey OP continue to ask your question, juice authority think all thread belong to him and what he has done, take the infromation you need and want and look past the rest….- November 16, 2020 at 1:26 am
Originally Posted by prone2rageHey OP continue to ask your question, juice authority think all thread belong to him and what he has done, take the infromation you need and want and look past the rest….Get off my cock son. You’ve been riding it for a while and my dick is getting tired.
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