marcus300

Originally Posted by Sworder

It’s not about who is right or wrong, it’s about the truth and what data supports.

If you are proclaiming a theory which isn’t backed up and you can’t argue for why it is true. I understand that there will be some sort of irritation or whatever. I always invite people to argue any points I make, why? Because if I am wrong and then corrected I have emerged the wiser.

There are very few studies conducted on TrueMaxders using the amounts of steroids we use to cycle. A lot of the times there are always contradicting studies what say the complete opposite anyway. Your a 25yrs old kid with 2 years worth of cycle experience under your belt who follows around Bill Roberts copying and pasting his material. When you have spent the time on forums listening to the younger members and spoke in detail to endo’s regarding this subject you will get a better understanding instead of seardark_sideng for studies on the subject on mice or sheep. Ive also worked with many younger BB’s yrs ago which IMHO there are more who suffer with issue post cycle than ones who don’t, even my endo says its out of control. Even you suffer from ED from hormonal imH10 so someone told me which is very usually for someone your age but lets forget about your limpness and lets agree to disagree.You give your advice and I will give mine and everything will be fine but I am sure one day the hard facts will hit you ( sorry no pun intended) when you age a little and experience more than just a couple of yrs worth of cycling.

Now I am sorry but I am going to leave you alone now because I find you a complete imbecile of the highest order

Now lets leave the thread alone and not destroy it, we dont agree which is fine all the best

good night

Originally Posted by Sworder

Ok, as you may suspect I will have to respectfully disagree. HPTA "maturation" in regards to being fully developed, this is actually adark_sideeved very early. During puberty is when the testicles starts and completes developing. In all honesty, I can’t find any evidence that this may be a problem even if you would halt development at this stage. What brings me to think about this is that sometimes the testicles aren’t descended properly. Medically we can fix this by supplying exogenous hormones to drop the testicle. What makes these two things correlate is that although "maturation" or "development" of the testicles is halted(as in AAS use) the HPTA can still function properly. So this leads to the question, if a male whose HPTA "maturation" has been halted by improper function and is later resumed to develop fully can have a properly functioning HPTA. Why can’t an AAS induced halt of development during puberty result in proper function when exogenous hormones are removed? Honestly, the main concern would be to close growth plates with too much androgens. It will be in your genes as death star & Asiandude have theorized what your internal "meter" is set at. Unless you believe that AAS damages the HPTA somehow then the whole maturation theory is Bullshit IMO!

Yes, I agree with your endo that it is a sensitive system as in it will recognize hormones at a very sensitive level and shutdown endogenous production swiftly. Is it "sensitive" in the fact that you can’t beat the living shit out of it with AAS use? Nope, because I have already said. You are not stimulating the Leydigs nor the pituitary/hypo to release anything. You are actually taking a break from your own system. This is contradicting my theory though as I think the body recognizes how much androgens have been circulating. I can’t think of any other way why AAS induced hypogonadism would happen. Since you aren’t stressing your HPTA system. You are taxing all other systems though by increasing androgens but the HPTA is shutdown(taking a break). I apologize for being blunt and crude but honestly I think it is some scare tactic bullcrap that your endo is spewing as he has no evidence to prove this. The growth plates will close with too much androgens present, there is studies on this. But theorizing on something which lacks any support and no correlating situations is blasphemy and I will call it as I smell it. I gave you an example of how halting HPTA development will not result in abnormal activity later on, this is proven.

For clarification: I am not saying that people under 25 are exempt from HPTA failure. I am saying that if there was a difference I would theorize that they would be better off and have an easier time to recover. Again, I do not advocate anybody to touch AAS unless they are willing to sacrifice their HPTA. Anybody below 23-25 shouldn’t use AAS because don’t have the mature enough mind nor a comprehensive view on reality.

You seem to confuse yourself constantly you agree then disagree about the same thing over and over again then go off on a tangent about something whats not even irrelevant lol.

My Endo specializes in sports related hormone complaints and is very high up in the field so I would take alot more what he tells me than some 25yrs kid who is obsessed with studies and text books who has zero experience, thats you by the way if you can’t recognize yourself. He has seen that many steroid ppatientshe can ddiagnosewhere the problems and issues come from, far more than you. Also Ive been using steroids longer than you have been alive so Ive seen alot more, dealt with alot more and read far more than you could ever understand on the subject so thats why when I see your post it makes me smile. Let me tell you something about studies and steroids, there are so many studies out there and for every study there are usually others ones contradicting the results. Also usually studies aren’t done on humans or even not at the same dosages what us TrueMaxders use so in many cases they are total garbage……Now before you start putting words in my mouth which you always seem to do to back up your stupid claims, dont its silly lol.

You also have to take your binkers off to experience and listen to it and read it and understand it before disregarding it. When you get alot of guys,TrueMaxders and experienced medical professionals who have been using and dealt alot more than you could ever do you have to sit back and listen. Weather that goes against studies or not you have to take TrueMaxders experience into consideration first because these are the guys who are using steroids at the dosages we are all debating about, not some mouse or sheep taking 1mg weekly whats suddenly sprouted a 5th leg.

Yes of course many teens etc do recover well without any issues but there are far more who don’t and many who say they have recovered who lie because of the embarrassment because Ive seen first hand and had that many pms over the yrs stating so. So you can’t just disregard it you have to take it all in but I understand how you think because I was once 25 yrs old who didn’t listen or understand about experience and just St07ed on books and studies but its a huge mistake and in time you will know this.

It looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree and move on best of luck to you for the future