NPP or Masteron with tren?

This topic has 45 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by Firstline.

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- October 30, 2020 at 3:32 am
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homefit
Participant

My cycle will include test ofcourse, and a dianabol / anadrol changeup.

But its a SBC and im adding more.
I will do tren a in week 3-4 and 7-8.

Week 5-6 i will use masteron or npp. What would u go for? I think masteron cause we need a dht but npp is more anabolic but maybe not as different compared to tren as mast?

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- October 30, 2020 at 4:04 am
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numbere
Member

Mast is a very poor muscle builder.

It’s primarily a muscle conditioner.

Honestly I mean no offense by saying this but I doubt your bf will be low enough to get the full benefit of mast.

Plus your kind of obsessive compulsive about cholesterol and mast is notorious for wreaking cholesterol.

Imo run NPP.
- October 30, 2020 at 7:44 am
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homefit
Participant

Originally Posted by numbere

Mast is a very poor muscle builder.

It’s primarily a muscle conditioner.

Honestly I mean no offense by saying this but I doubt your bf will be low enough to get the full benefit of mast.

Plus your kind of obsessive compulsive about cholesterol and mast is notorious for wreaking cholesterol.

Imo run NPP.

Last first. Your rigth about colestrol. I have been struggling but i have changed my diett. Didnt eat any veggies before. BB suggested my diett was the explanation. Bur havent checked it yet. But i will do precycle BW.
And another point. Ive red a couple of pubmed reports suggesting that aasrelated cholestrolworsening do not thicken the arteriewalls.

No ur rigth. Iguess i will not get below 12% but i have cycled masteron before with 16/17% with good results. And my maingoal is not to benefit from masteron the most. But to work in synergy and squise the most out of tren .
And in lack of other options it must be masteron or npp. Dont know other injectables which would fit in week 2 5 and 6.
- October 30, 2020 at 9:44 am
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numbere
Member

I think nandrolone and tren have an awesome synergistic effect when used together.

Depending on what doses you’ll be running you might consider taking 10mg/d of nolva as a precautionary measure.

The affect elevated cholesterol from AAS has on arterial walls would be dependent on the size (short vs long) of the cholesterol molecules in your blood stream. Which would be largely dependent on diet.

Elevated cholesterol isn’t necessarily bad, rather it depends on the size of the molecules present.

Large particulates are good, it’s the small particulates that damage arteries and allow calcium deposits to form.
- November 5, 2020 at 5:11 am
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homefit
Participant

Originally Posted by numbere

I think nandrolone and tren have an awesome synergistic effect when used together.

Depending on what doses you’ll be running you might consider taking 10mg/d of nolva as a precautionary measure.

The affect elevated cholesterol from AAS has on arterial walls would be dependent on the size (short vs long) of the cholesterol molecules in your blood stream. Which would be largely dependent on diet.

Elevated cholesterol isn’t necessarily bad, rather it depends on the size of the molecules present.

Large particulates are good, it’s the small particulates that damage arteries and allow calcium deposits to form.

Interesting. Didnt get that info from pubmed. Maybe aas create large particles then. And i think i remember Bostin said that too. As long as your diett is cholestrolfriendly, u shouldnt woory too much about aas and cholestrol.

But wouldnt a dht and 19nor have more synergy than two 19nors?

I def will consider your nolvatip in my SBC
- November 5, 2020 at 6:02 am
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numbere
Member

Originally Posted by Silabolin

Interesting. Didnt get that info from pubmed. Maybe aas create large particles then. And i think i remember Bostin said that too. As long as your diett is cholestrolfriendly, u shouldnt woory too much about aas and cholestrol.

A VAP cholesterol test will tell you the size the size of the cholesterol particulates in your blood.

But wouldnt a dht and 19nor have more synergy than two 19nors?

That question is above my pay grade.
- November 5, 2020 at 7:05 am
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homefit
Participant

Originally Posted by numbere

That question is above my pay grade.

Ok. You are not a Vet yet so….

Kidding…thanks man. Indept info as always
- November 5, 2020 at 8:31 am
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Mr.BB
Member

Originally Posted by numbere

Elevated cholesterol isn’t necessarily bad, rather it depends on the size of the molecules present.

Large particulates are good, it’s the small particulates that damage arteries and allow calcium deposits to form.

Sorry to burst you guys bubble here, but the facts are not exactly as described above (although a particular number of ppl consistently try to give slight changes to reality).

It is true that large LDL is less harmful than small LDL, but to say that large particles "are good" is wrong. The graph below depicts how much:

from: Low-Density Lipoprotein and High-Density Lipoprotein Particle Subclasses Predict Coronary Events and Are Favorably Changed by Gemfibrozil Therapy in the Veterans Affairs High-Density Lipoprotein Intervention Trial

EDIT: Ok, what the graph is saying is that large LDL particles increase the risk of Coronary Heart Disease in 31%, instead of 44% from the small LDL.
- November 5, 2020 at 9:43 am
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Firstline
Member

Is that VAP cholesterol test even available abroad? I can only find some articles but not actual labs providing it. I’m concerned about CV disease since three of my grandparents have it.
- November 5, 2020 at 10:48 am
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homefit
Participant

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Sorry to burst you guys bubble here, but the facts are not exactly as described above (although a particular number of ppl consistently try to give slight changes to reality).

It is true that large LDL is less harmful than small LDL, but to say that large particles "are good" is wrong. The graph below depicts how much:

from: Low-Density Lipoprotein and High-Density Lipoprotein Particle Subclasses Predict Coronary Events and Are Favorably Changed by Gemfibrozil Therapy in the Veterans Affairs High-Density Lipoprotein Intervention Trial
- November 5, 2020 at 12:20 pm
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Mr.BB
Member

Originally Posted by Silabolin

Yes. But the mainpoint here. Do u think the pubmedreports, which say aasworsened cholerstrol do not thicken the arterie walls, are wrong?

If I remember correctly the study you posted a while ago, was more related to the heart wall than arteries, wasnt it? Can you link it again?

But about your cholesterol, its always going to be high if you keep eating high amount of eggs, milk, cheese and butter.
- November 5, 2020 at 1:12 pm
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Dreamer
Member

For me the ONLY difference in my labs for the Cholesterol was good HDL moving to low end of the range. The others never budged.

I guess if you cruise at high enough levels it could run you into the area of "worry". Maybe I am just lucky in this aspect.
- November 5, 2020 at 2:20 pm
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homefit
Participant

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

If I remember correctly the study you posted a while ago, was more related to the heart wall than arteries, wasnt it? Can you link it again?

But about your cholesterol, its always going to be high if you keep eating high amount of eggs, milk, cheese and butter.

heart wall?..no, got to do with the arteries…..and dont think it was only the arteriewalls in the heart, but all arteries.
But i try to find it again. Just come home from training and wife wants to go out for dinner so gotta run.

But its complex man. ive red eggs and milk and cheese is good for HDL and yet if its raises the LDL, it raises your HDL more, closing the gap beetween hdl and ldl, which is far more important than having low total cholestrol.

But, my BP and heartbeat at rest is optimal for my age. And that migth tell that my bad cholestrol last years (due to bad diett) has not done so much damage.
- November 5, 2020 at 3:20 pm
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Mr.BB
Member

Found it:

You pasted 2 studies together, the first is only about LV left ventricule.

What they say is that the AAS dont directly cause artery thickning, although they confirm that steroids do change lipids in a bad way.
With time we know that high cholesterol promotes atherosclerosis.

Where you read that eggs are good for cholesterol??

It was not in any medical information board…
- November 5, 2020 at 4:22 pm
- Quote
Firstline
Member

Originally Posted by Silabolin

heart wall?..no, got to do with the arteries…..and dont think it was only the arteriewalls in the heart, but all arteries.
But i try to find it again. Just come home from training and wife wants to go out for dinner so gotta run.

But its complex man. ive red eggs and milk and cheese is good for HDL and yet if its raises the LDL, it raises your HDL more, closing the gap beetween hdl and ldl, which is far more important than having low total cholestrol.

But, my BP and heartbeat at rest is optimal for my age. And that migth tell that my bad cholestrol last years (due to bad diett) has not done so much damage.

What about your sugars consumption? Including fruits. High glycemic loads are the most powerful stimulus for cholesterol synthesis. Absorption from food is regulated by the liver in a negative feedback fashion.
- November 10, 2020 at 1:23 am
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ScotchGuard02
Member

My genetics suck and my triglyceride and cholesterol were off the charts. The numbers actually went down when I was cycling. I changed my diet and the numbers dropped again. I’ve been cycling for about 15 years and my numbers didn’t change too much. I finally got medication and in my last PCT blook work, all of my lipid numbers were totally normal. IMO, controlled cycling of AAS didn’t affect my body in a harmful way. As a matter of fact, my cholesterol numbers dropped as I cycled and watched my diet. I’m no doctor, scientist, or medical professional. I know what I put in my body and what my blood work says. For me, AAS cycling has not proven to be harmful in any way over the past 15 years. Oh, about NPP or Mast? I’d run NPP. Running 2 Nor-19’s are fine. I’ve run Tren /Primo and Tren/NPP with awesome results. Next year I’ll run Tren/Mast and see how they work.