When to start using Steroids

Something like this?

To this there is no definitive answer due to loads of variables like you have just mentioned.
Age
Bf%
Training experience
Weight
Goals
Just to mention a few.
There’s far to large a sliding scale.
It’s all well and good saying your 30 and endocrine system is mature etc if you have only just stepped in a gym.
Sorry but to do a "chart" would be impossible.

Personally if you can not get in LOW single digit bodyfat% naturally and with good muscle bellies and proportions then you don’t EVEN deserve it….

And quite frankly, it usually shows the TRUE persons work ethic, which is lazy….Don’t even think about it until you hit your natural peak or AT LEAST very close to it..

Agreed. Reality there is no right time or formula to decide. Realize your goals, make sure you are committed to the lifestyle of fitness. A couple years training is a good inclination that you are going to keep training. If you just joined the gym, chances are you don’t know if you’re ready to commit 4 days a week for the rest of your future.

I started to soon, and it was a huge waste. I now feel more ready and others may feel im not yet worthy. But when I think about training and the gym, I don’t have a finish line. I plan to train until I’m no longer able to do so, and for me, and only me, it has allowed me to feel ready. I have also done tremendous work on my eating habits and understanding what the body needs to grow, cut, recomp etc.. If you can make serious efforts in these areas, your are closer to your goal of utilizing aas. When you use them will be when you choose to and nobody will make that decision but you.

Good luck

To each is own, the safest way is best though.

Lower Bf% and what not. . . . But, some people use it for different shit. I seen people use juice effectively for weight loss, we don’t recommend it. But, it does work.

Powerlifters are pretty high in Bf but still use. It’s a part of their sport as much as it is in BB.

And there are so many small time users. I see it now in the gym, I say 80% of the guys that regularly go to my gym are juiced. I have a few confirmed, but it’s not hard to tell.

Juice is like religion. . . . . Bring me to the other thread.

You can’t be a juice Nazi . . . lol

People can juice whenever, not that they should.

We are all self indulgent wieners unless we do this for our living. We do this juice because we want to for different inner reasons of course. But, life will not end if none of us juiced < Of course TRT patients are an exclusion from this.

Exactly, it makes them normal…Because not that many people get to low bodyfat%…And it isn’t just genetics freaks that get there, there is a lot of hard working people that have to work a lot harder then others to get there too…

Anyone can get there so it’s up to them….So you can answer your own question I guess….

As for BODYBUILDING purposes, I would HIGHLY suggest build SOLID SOLID physique natural before you use…Proportion, strength, etc…There is lots of bodies built off hormones only and it shows….

And just as you hate being lumped into a category…There is guys that worked 10x times harder then someone else who just jumped on hormones and surpassed them…I bet those guys HATE that too..

But for the ones that waited, they shall receive the extra benefits…..

Here is my thing. The OP has 17 posts here. And he gets a snide remark that is an OPINION ONLY and doesnt have any evidence or references other than an opinion to back it up. So I have sympathy for new guys looking for legit answers, as I was one not too long ago. And guess what? I got this same crap from "promoted" members, who should be the ones giving sound advice. Even if that advice is only opinion, which most are anyways, should be professional in manner. I had the hardest time adapting to this forum due to this behavior from advanced guys, and it was intimidating and made me feel stupid. In my opinion, the OP asked a legit question, that desearves a legit answer.

And because you thinka person can maintain a natural BF% of 5-7% and be at genetic limit doesnt mean it holds water. That is your opinion as well. And for me now being a grown up and havinga family with bills, I dont have the time or money to eat or train to maintain single digits, on or off cycle. I do in fact work 12-16 hours, sometimes more, and still find a little time to go to the gym 4-5 times a week, and I get good results from what I can do. It is all I can do. I am a small business owner, so I dont have the luxury of getting 12 hours of sleep, 8 meals a day, 2 hours at the gym, etc, etc, etc. that it takes to have professional-like stats. I dont have the time, or the money. After reading the Bears diet, and seeing musitiontinites diet, it is just not in the cards for me at the timeto be able to eat like that. I would love too, but I dont make the money to do it.

To keep from continuing the rant, I am happy whenI am 10-12%, 5’10, and 185-195. Currently, I am at 15% or a bit more. Not happy about it, but I can assure you Cali, I am not lazy. Stressed to the max? Yeah, I am that. Try running a construction business in this economy and having several guys depend on you to provide them wih enough work to provide for their families. Not lazy, just doing what I can do, like 99% of the people here. Its a freaking hobby for us, not a job. If it was a job, hell yes it would be different. But its a hobby and people can start at whatever stats they want to start at. Sometimes we forget we are all in this together and are here to help others and build each other up and encourage one another with our goals. We have to assert leadership better than what I was treated, and what some others are getting treated, as we were chosen to do just that.