What role does deca play in a cycle?

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    • November 5, 2020 at 5:55 am
    LACOSTE
    Member
    I have read that deca is good for connective tissue strength and general strength increases. What does it do differently than testosterone in terms of the effects and side effects?

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    • November 5, 2020 at 7:28 am
    Xself
    Member
    That’s an age old debate.
    According to some, it does nothing more, it’s just an anti inflammatory on top so that it reduces pain while on, others says it really has better effects at connective tissue than most other AAS.

    I’m torn on the subject myself.

    But, as long as shut down and recovery isn’t a big worry, it’s a nice compound.
    I feel it has helped me with joint issues before.
    Can I know for certain? No.

    I tend to lean towards the notion that so many anecdotes about its supposed benefits may indeed mean it has some.
    Ofcourse you’ll need to supplement test alongside it.

    The only instance I’ve seen deca only use (for joint issues) was with a woman.
    And yes it helped her. Would test have done the same?
    Maybe (if we disregard the virilization issue)

    But while you could include deca in your stack, don’t forget about glucosamine, gelatin and physio.

    • November 5, 2020 at 8:34 am
    MuscleScience
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by XselfView
    That’s an age old debate.
    According to some, it does nothing more, it’s just an anti inflammatory on top so that it reduces pain while on, others says it really has better effects at connective tissue than most other AAS.

    I’m torn on the subject myself.

    But, as long as shut down and recovery isn’t a big worry, it’s a nice compound.
    I feel it has helped me with joint issues before.
    Can I know for certain? No.

    I tend to lean towards the notion that so many anecdotes about its supposed benefits may indeed mean it has some.
    Ofcourse you’ll need to supplement test alongside it.

    The only instance I’ve seen deca only use (for joint issues) was with a woman.
    And yes it helped her. Would test have done the same?
    Maybe (if we disregard the virilization issue)

    But while you could include deca in your stack, don’t forget about glucosamine, gelatin and physio.

    I run deca only cycles, best mass builder that works for me. Why I run it only is for another thread but it takes me to monsterously different places than Test or other AAS.

    • November 5, 2020 at 9:47 am
    Xself
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScienceView
    I run deca only cycles, best mass builder that works for me. Why I run it only is for another thread but it takes me to monsterously different places than Test or other AAS.

    Hmm, sounds intresting and very strange, so I’m intrigued.
    But as for the OPs question, how does it affect your joints?

    • November 5, 2020 at 10:50 am
    MuscleScience
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by XselfView
    Hmm, sounds intresting and very strange, so I’m intrigued.
    But as for the OPs question, how does it affect your joints?

    Oh sorry, ‘missed that part.

    I’ve never really read any research papers that says that it does other than, it stimulates collegen synthesis to some extent.

    • November 5, 2020 at 12:07 pm
    TestoSuper
    Member
    apart lubricate tendons and give good strength support, Deca is great because causes a strong nitrogen retention in the individual muscle groups, it has a very high anabolic action ..
    The biggest drawback is the heavy and long term hpta suppression, but it seems this is very indivudual..
    For this reason I alternate Deca every other year in bulking cycles.

    • November 5, 2020 at 1:22 pm
    VUBlack
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScienceView
    I run deca only cycles, best mass builder that works for me. Why I run it only is for another thread but it takes me to monsterously different places than Test or other AAS.

    you sure seem unique case of human male specimen I recall you said before you used to run oral only cycles and it worked amazing for you too, rendering alot whats being said to use test as a base for oral cycles almost as a "myth" (if I recall that right)

    • November 5, 2020 at 2:32 pm
    MuscleScience
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneMuscleView
    you sure seem unique case of human male specimen I recall you said before you used to run oral only cycles and it worked amazing for you too, rendering alot whats being said to use test as a base for oral cycles almost as a "myth" (if I recall that right)

    Yeah, I had some free time and free rain of the library when I was in grad school so I would jump onto the chem and medical journal databases and look up a lot of info on all the different compounds. All these drugs were designed for a purpose. T-bol for athletes, deca for burn victims and bone mineral loss, sustason for muscle wasting ext.
    There is tons of info floating around on the medical journals about it all. Plus having a background in Chemisty. Knowing how binding affinity works as far as chemical agents are concerned shaped my philosophy on stacking and how it’s probably not as productive. For example a standard 500mg T and 500mg deca cycle is no more better for my gains than just running 400mg of deca alone, plus I get virtually no sides.

    I think the concept of synergy is really more a function of total androgens used not their additive effect to each other. I could be terribly wrong on this, but so far, I have never seen a compelling piece of evidence/s to sway me otherwise.

    • November 5, 2020 at 3:30 pm
    Xself
    Member
    I think you over evaluate what we actually have proved by studies on AAS.
    When they began developing synthetic versions of testosterone and saw they behaved differently than testosterone in various ways, chemist developed 100s of steroids , most of which were never studied in humans.

    AR affinity in itself has also proved to be more difficult to measure when studies revealed that agents with low affinity for the androgen receptor still caused a significant increase in AR mediated gene regulation.

    There’s also a lot more to AAS and AR mediated myogenesis.
    Like systemic IGF1 secretion, local IGF1 turnover and on EPO mediated effects, etc.

    When different AAS were developed they tried them in several different conditions. Yes Deca can be used in burn victims, so can many other AAS. Deca is also used for osteoporosis in women.
    Stuff like TBOL were an exception, as it was actually designed (or taken into use) for athletic improvement. But this was under a regime that had a state sponsored doping plan. Other AAS has also only been used for athletic performance, but this is either because they were AAS that didn’t have any medical use and has advantages when it came to testing.
    THG is perhaps the only steroid that we know was developed with the intention for performance use and beating drug tests.

    Anyways, intresting take you have, but even if you just look at the muscle tissue and says deca is enough, you’re neglecting all the other physiological effects T has in the body.

    We should make a new thread.
    This was intresting.

    • November 5, 2020 at 4:39 pm
    Skolzage
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScienceView
    Yeah, I had some free time and free rain of the library when I was in grad school so I would jump onto the chem and medical journal databases and look up a lot of info on all the different compounds. All these drugs were designed for a purpose. T-bol for athletes, deca for burn victims and bone mineral loss, sustason for muscle wasting ext.
    There is tons of info floating around on the medical journals about it all. Plus having a background in Chemisty. Knowing how binding affinity works as far as chemical agents are concerned shaped my philosophy on stacking and how it’s probably not as productive. For example a standard 500mg T and 500mg deca cycle is no more better for my gains than just running 400mg of deca alone, plus I get virtually no sides.

    I think the concept of synergy is really more a function of total androgens used not their additive effect to each other. I could be terribly wrong on this, but so far, I have never seen a compelling piece of evidence/s to sway me otherwise.

    So not to hijack but when you run these deca only cycles @what dose do you run?just curious?

    • November 5, 2020 at 6:04 pm
    homefit
    Participant
    Quote Originally Posted by LACOSTEView
    I have read that deca is good for connective tissue strength and general strength increases. What does it do differently than testosterone in terms of the effects and side effects?

    A lot. Running 500 deca and 500 test is an another planet than 1 g of test.
    But you need to pay attention to prolactin buildup, which isnt the case for a test only cycles.
    And recovery is much harder when u add in deca. But its better for lipids, BP and shit like that, than test.

    So all in all i would say 500 deca/test gives less sides than 1 g test, even if the necessary DAs (stop prolactin) for the first option come with sides on their own.

    • November 10, 2020 at 1:17 am
    Xself
    Member
    @musclescience; You’re not just saying 1g deca would be equal to 1 g test,
    You say 400mg deca gives just as good gains 500 T, 500 D.
    We need a new thread!

    • November 10, 2020 at 2:32 am
    MuscleScience
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by SkolzageView
    @musclescience; You’re not just saying 1g deca would be equal to 1 g test,
    You say 400mg deca gives just as good gains 500 T, 500 D.
    We need a new thread!

    Yes we do, I knew it would be a thread highjack if I said something but i couldn’t help myself lol

    Sorry OP, I will say I’m a huge fan of Deca. It’s probably a very close second to only Tren E.

    • November 10, 2020 at 3:29 am
    Xself
    Member

    Let’s to it here. This was too good.
    Made it kinda quick. If it doesn’t make sense just add in more of your quotes.

    • November 10, 2020 at 4:37 am
    LACOSTE
    Member
    Quote Originally Posted by XselfView
    That’s an age old debate.
    According to some, it does nothing more, it’s just an anti inflammatory on top so that it reduces pain while on, others says it really has better effects at connective tissue than most other AAS.

    I’m torn on the subject myself.

    But, as long as shut down and recovery isn’t a big worry, it’s a nice compound.
    I feel it has helped me with joint issues before.
    Can I know for certain? No.

    I tend to lean towards the notion that so many anecdotes about its supposed benefits may indeed mean it has some.
    Ofcourse you’ll need to supplement test alongside it.

    The only instance I’ve seen deca only use (for joint issues) was with a woman.
    And yes it helped her. Would test have done the same?
    Maybe (if we disregard the virilization issue)

    But while you could include deca in your stack, don’t forget about glucosamine, gelatin and physio.

    I take what you said about shut down and recovery to mean that using deca is much more suppressive to natural testosterone production compared to using just test?

    • November 10, 2020 at 6:00 am
    Slayer13
    Member
    Something of interest that I found out, my wife is working on her PhD and one of her research projects currently relates to progesterone and pain. She is manipulating rat’s progesterone levels then testing their pain tolerance, it appears increased progesterone decreases felt pain / increases pain tolerance. The reason I find it so interesting is people claim Deca "lubricates their joints" and helps with their joint pain.

    Deca can bind to progesterone receptors so I found this potential link interesting.

    Just thought I’d toss that out there

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