Testosterone Binding vs Tren Binding

This topic has 7 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by Dreamer.

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- October 30, 2020 at 6:08 am
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Dreamer
Member

SHBG binds to testosterone leaving about 2% of Testosterone as Free Testosterone. This is not a big deal because the bond between SHBG and Testosterone is a weak to super weak bond and can be broken easily and the testosterone reclaimed if there is work to be done. How do things change when you add a second dose of product like Tren ?

The Questions:

1. Can using a component like Tren ever block Testosterone from going where it is needed? I know Androgen receptor battles between a TrT dose of Test and a 200 dose of Tren has about 3mg of test fighting for the spot against the 200 mg of Tren due to SHBG binding. Some places I read say there are infinite Androgen receptors. Any source that can scientifically clarify this battle or is it just speculation?

2.When on cycle even if Tren is carrying the work load I would hypothesis that there is an increased need for testosterone over the normal levels because there is "work to be done" in building muscle and such. I use the two levels of 125 as a TrT dose and 350 as a muscle protecting dose while cutting as reference. Withstanding the negative like E2 conversion and amplification of sides, is there a positive for running the higher dose? I do not think 225 mg a week of test results to a measurable growth item but could it actually be needed due to the increased growth from the Tren?

Thank you in advance

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- October 30, 2020 at 6:11 am
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Dreamer
Member

Originally Posted by Dreamer

SHRonin binds to testosterone leaving about 2% of Testosterone as Free Testosterone. This is not a big deal because the bond between SHRonin and Testosterone is a weak to super weak bond and can be broken easily and the testosterone reclaimed if there is work to be done. How do things change when you add a second dose of product like Tren ?

The Questions:

1. Can using a component like Tren ever block Testosterone from going where it is needed? I know Androgen receptor battles between a TrT dose of Test and a 200 dose of Tren has about 3mg of test fighting for the spot against the 200 mg of Tren due to SHRonin binding. Some places I read say there are infinite Androgen receptors. Any source that can scientifically clarify this battle or is it just speculation?

2.When on cycle even if Tren is carrying the work load I would hypothesis that there is an increased need for testosterone over the normal levels because there is "work to be done" in building muscle and such. I use the two levels of 125 as a TrT dose and 350 as a muscle protecting dose while cutting as reference. Withstanding the negative like E2 conversion and amplification of sides, is there a positive for running the higher dose? I do not think 225 mg a week of test results to a measurable growth item but could it actually be needed due to the increased growth from the Tren?

Thank you in advance

Found the path to the answer. Andro receptors are not all the same. True Andro receptors in sex tissue and such actually react to testosterone at a much greater strength than non-True receptors. (True ad non-true are just terms I made up to make the point without all the scientific gab.) In the True Recptors Testosterone acts at a three times stronger binding afinity than other substances (We will use Tren as an other substance). So one key for this lock only. In non-True Andro receptors (Fat etc) it is open market to what binds (Many keys one lock) and Tren will beat Test if it is available.

The body is a frigging incredible thing.

I was given with much certainty that the True receptors will not accept anything but Testosterone. Testosterone Analogues need not apply. So in the end THIS is why Testosteron is an absolute must for cycle.

So

1) No Test cannot be blocked from where it needs to go by Tren
2) A larger dose of Test is only needed if you want the added strength of the added dose.
- October 30, 2020 at 9:34 am
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songdog
Member

This horse has been rode in the ground but I am glad you got it in print.
- October 30, 2020 at 10:54 am
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Xself
Member

Your conclusion is correct, but the hypothesis is not.

But simplified;
1) Yes you’ll need testosterone no matter what
(trestolone being an exception in some studies,
well, there’s actually many exceptions in studies but fuck that)
2) trenbolone won’t raise your need for testosterone.
A TRT dose of test can be run with any other AAS.

As for receptor binding I’m not even gonna go there.
The SHRonin bond to T is quite strong though.
But might be changed by conformational change in the protein 3D structure.
- November 10, 2020 at 1:11 am
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Firstline
Member

Originally Posted by Dreamer

Found the path to the answer. Andro receptors are not all the same. True Andro receptors in sex tissue and such actually react to testosterone at a much greater strength than non-True receptors. (True ad non-true are just terms I made up to make the point without all the scientific gab.) In the True Recptors Testosterone acts at a three times stronger binding afinity than other substances (We will use Tren as an other substance). So one key for this lock only. In non-True Andro receptors (Fat etc) it is open market to what binds (Many keys one lock) and Tren will beat Test if it is available.

The body is a frigging incredible thing.

I was given with much certainty that the True receptors will not accept anything but Testosterone. Testosterone Analogues need not apply. So in the end THIS is why Testosteron is an absolute must for cycle.

I believe you refer to 5-AR dependent tissue.

Trenbolone is also regarded as a SARM since it diplays poor affinity for tissues such as skin, hair, prostate, where DHT plays a major role.

Testosterone literally spoils my hair, but Tren doesn’t affect it one bit.

I used to have abs straight and fine hair and this is the current status after three years on TRT:

As for binding I agree with Doc that SHRonin will render T practically unusable.
- November 10, 2020 at 2:05 am
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MuscleScience
Member

I’m going to add my 2 cents.

As Bizzaro points out it is tissue specific. In muscle tissue Tren will have a blocking effect for T on the AR due to its extremely highly binding affinity. Let’s just say for the sake of argument that you would have Free T floating around.

My opinion on what I know and understand to be true of how androgens bind to the AR which remember is intra cellular and is not a second messenger like so many other cellular signaling pathways. This high affinity for binding would make anything other than a HRT level dosages a waste of compounds. On the flip side, if your goal was to "Saturate," the AR with T with extremely high dosages and playing on sheer probability of binding with higher numbers of molecules. Then what would be the point of then blocking Tren from binding to the AR with high Levels of T floating around?
- November 10, 2020 at 3:06 am
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Dr.James
Member

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I’m going to add my 2 cents.

As Bizzaro points out it is tissue specific. In muscle tissue Tren will have a blocking effect for T on the AR due to its extremely highly binding affinity. Let’s just say for the sake of argument that you would have Free T floating around.

My opinion on what I know and understand to be true of how androgens bind to the AR which remember is intra cellular and is not a second messenger like so many other cellular signaling pathways. This high affinity for binding would make anything other than a HRT level dosages a waste of compounds. On the flip side, if your goal was to "Saturate," the AR with T with extremely high dosages and playing on sheer probability of binding with higher numbers of molecules. Then what would be the point of then blocking Tren from binding to the AR with high Levels of T floating around?

Wow…. you just spit some knowledge there!
- November 10, 2020 at 4:02 am
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Dreamer
Member

Originally Posted by Xself

Your conclusion is correct, but the hypothesis is not.

But simplified;
1) Yes you’ll need testosterone no matter what
(trestolone being an exception in some studies,
well, there’s actually many exceptions in studies but fuck that)
2) trenbolone won’t raise your need for testosterone.
A TRT dose of test can be run with any other AAS.

As for receptor binding I’m not even gonna go there.
The SHRonin bond to T is quite strong though.
But might be changed by conformational change in the protein 3D structure.

You are correct. I went back to read. The albumin to testosterone bond is weak and reclaiming that testosterone (very significant quantity) is easily retrieved.

Bizzaro..I wondered why my hair turned into a friggin squirrels nest. Exact same hair as I sport now.